2022/2023 germinations and off-types

[Tormahto]

This is the thread for poor/non germinations, and plant/leaf/fruit off-types.

[GoDawgs]

I received some Mohamed micro tomato seed but I'm wondering if it really is. The descriptions I've read all have Mohamed about 12" tall or a bit less. The one I'm growing is already 18" x 16" with no buds or blooms yet.

[MissS]

@GoDawgs I think that you have an off-type. Mohamed is supposed to have regular rugose leafed plants and your photo is just not fitting that description neither is it's height.

[MissTee]

B48DCD17-F980-49DF-B7DD-126AA2BD6D4E.jpeg

Can someone tell if Groovy Tunes is true to type? Here’s a pic of micros and dwarfs from the MMMM seeded 3 weeks ago. Hardin’s Miniature, Chibikko, Premus and Cherokee Tiger Black are looking stubby. Groovy Tunes to the far right is quite lanky and foliage is neither chartreuse, nor rugose.

[MissS]

@MissTee Groovy Tunes is supposed to have rugose foliage. The picture that you are showing just has plain regular leafed foliage. Given that and the growth habit that it's displaying, I would say that you have an off-type.

[MissTee]

Well that’s not groovy, man.

[habitat-gardener]

My Groovy Tunes from the swap has chartreuse rugose foliage.

[AZGardener]

The plant with the light green leaves (back right) looks like Groovy Tunes.
Here's a photo of mine last Spring.
HTH

GroovyTunesDwarf.jpg

[MissTee]

The plant with the light green leaves (back right) looks like Groovy Tunes.
Here's a photo of mine last Spring.
HTH

GroovyTunesDwarf.jpg

The plant in the back right is Cherokee Tiger Black. I believe Groovy Tunes has Cherokee Tiger in it’s lineage.

I will try another planting of Groovy Tunes just to make sure I haven’t mixed up seed packets.

[zendog]

I'm growing a bunch of Elbonian Mudslinger seedlings and I noticed a few came out as regular leaf, not potato leaf. It could just be sloppy seeding on my part, since the next row over in my flat is a regular leaf tomato, but wanted to mention it in case others see it. Since I'm the one who sent in seed, I apologize in advance if any cross got in. I collected seed from several tomatoes.

But I think it is only F3 or F4 at this point, so it might also be that it isn't stable. I pulled all the regular leaf seedlings, but it would be interesting if anyone else gets any and they grow them out.

[Shule]

I'm growing a bunch of Elbonian Mudslinger seedlings and I noticed a few came out as regular leaf, not potato leaf. It could just be sloppy seeding on my part, since the next row over in my flat is a regular leaf tomato, but wanted to mention it in case others see it. Since I'm the one who sent in seed, I apologize in advance if any cross got in. I collected seed from several tomatoes.

But I think it is only F3 or F4 at this point, so it might also be that it isn't stable. I pulled all the regular leaf seedlings, but it would be interesting if anyone else gets any and they grow them out.

If it's RL and was PL the previous generation, it shouldn't be due to instability in the seed. That should either be cross-pollination or mixed up seed (since PL is said to be a homozygous trait when expressed, if RL and PL are the only leaf type considerations).

[zendog]

Thanks for clarifying the genetics part.

Just to clarify, I planted 2 rows (12 cells) of EB with a few seeds per cell. When I was thinning out, there were 3 of probably 25 seedlings that were RL. They were all in a row next to RL seedlings, so as I said it could just be sloppy seeding on my part. But maybe they were from a cross so I wanted to warn people. Based on what you say, folks should cull any that show up as RL since those could be from a cross. Since I sent in a lot of seed from several tomatoes, hopefully if there is an issue, it was just from one tomato and most of the seed is good. Hopefully I didn't muddy up a great tomato, lol.

I'm growing a bunch of Elbonian Mudslinger seedlings and I noticed a few came out as regular leaf, not potato leaf. It could just be sloppy seeding on my part, since the next row over in my flat is a regular leaf tomato, but wanted to mention it in case others see it. Since I'm the one who sent in seed, I apologize in advance if any cross got in. I collected seed from several tomatoes.

But I think it is only F3 or F4 at this point, so it might also be that it isn't stable. I pulled all the regular leaf seedlings, but it would be interesting if anyone else gets any and they grow them out.

If it's RL and was PL the previous generation, it shouldn't be due to instability in the seed. That should either be cross-pollination or mixed up seed (since PL is said to be a homozygous trait when expressed, if RL and PL are the only leaf type considerations).

[Shule]

@zendog
One thing that is helpful to know is that each grain of pollen corresponds to a single seed. So, it's likely that some of the seeds from a single fruit are crossed and some aren't. I would suppose the PL ones to be true to type, even if there are RL ones with it. Tomatoes have perfect flowers, so they have both male and female parts in the same flower. If a bee comes along with pollen from another plant, it's likely that some of the pollen from the original flower pollinated the fruit, too. Wind can also bring pollen from flower to flower.

In my own seed, when I overseed from saved seed, I often find one or two RL plants among lots of PL plants in a variety that is supposed to be PL; if I want to grow a cross, I grow the RL; if I don't, I grow the PL and thin the RL ones out.

My guess is some stray pollen from wind pollinated a few seeds, and the original flower got the rest.

[Tormahto]

Elbonian Mudslinger is not even close to being stable. Its origin with me was from a pack of Elgin Pink, with Elgin Pink's origins tracing back to Wild Thyme. From what I've read, there are some spectacular tomatoes that all started with Wild Thyme. Bunny Hop Seeds has some of the background. When I get around to starting seeds of Elbonian Mudslinger, I will not throw away any seedlings, regardless of leaf type. I believe there may be much potential in every seedling.

[GoDawgs]

I received some Mohamed micro tomato seed but I'm wondering if it really is. The descriptions I've read all have Mohamed about 12" tall or a bit less. The one I'm growing is already 18" x 16" with no buds or blooms yet.

Well, it still shows no signs of buds and I need the space so out it goes. Later in the year I'll start another one and see what happens.

[Tormahto]

I received some Mohamed micro tomato seed but I'm wondering if it really is. The descriptions I've read all have Mohamed about 12" tall or a bit less. The one I'm growing is already 18" x 16" with no buds or blooms yet.

Well, it still shows no signs of buds and I need the space so out it goes. Later in the year I'll start another one and see what happens.

Is that what they call living large?

[Toomanymatoes]

Thought I would post my germination rates for the seeds I obtained and sowed from the 2021 MMMM.

Sowed seeds for 8 varieties I obtained from the 2021 MMMM swap directly into potting mix on March 26, 2022.

Germination rates as of April 7, 2022:

image.png

I planted the remaining 2 seeds for Lucky Cross about 5 days ago, so hopefully one of those pops up for me. Otherwise, great success!

Thanks again to all that participated and to @Tormato for all the hard work!

[Tormahto]

Thought I would post my germination rates for the seeds I obtained and sowed from the 2021 MMMM.

Sowed seeds for 8 varieties I obtained from the 2021 MMMM swap directly into potting mix on March 26, 2022.

Germination rates as of April 7, 2022:

image.png

I planted the remaining 2 seeds for Lucky Cross about 5 days ago, so hopefully one of those pops up for me. Otherwise, great success!

Thanks again to all that participated and to @Tormato for all the hard work!

Was there any date on the Lucky Cross pack?

And, Grub's Mystery Green has historically had more off-types than any other variety that I know of. Hopefully, you'll get the correct fruit, or if not, something better than the original.

[Toomanymatoes]

Was there any date on the Lucky Cross pack?

And, Grub's Mystery Green has historically had more off-types than any other variety that I know of. Hopefully, you'll get the correct fruit, or if not, something better than the original.

Here is a pic of the package:

MMMM-2021-Lucky_Cross-01.jpg

I have no idea what the numbers mean. I assume you do though. I added the white label.

I was just reporting my results. Please do not take that as any sort of complaint or make-work problem for you to address.

I understand about Grub's Mystery Green. Not a problem. It is a "mystery" after all! I actually need to look up what the true type is supposed to be.

[Tormahto]

Was there any date on the Lucky Cross pack?

And, Grub's Mystery Green has historically had more off-types than any other variety that I know of. Hopefully, you'll get the correct fruit, or if not, something better than the original.

Here is a pic of the package:
MMMM-2021-Lucky_Cross-01.jpg

I have no idea what the numbers mean. I assume you do though. I added the white label.

I was just reporting my results. Please do not take that as any sort of complaint or make-work problem for you to address.

I understand about Grub's Mystery Green. Not a problem. It is a "mystery" after all! I actually need to look up what the true type is supposed to be.

The 10 likely means either 10 seeds, or 2010.

And it's not a make-work. If I get reports of no germination or off-types, and I still have plenty of seed, I set those aside, later deciding whether to toss them.