Tomatoville

[BarbamWy]

I haven't been on there for awhile since I'm just now gearing up for seed starting in Wyoming. How long has it been down? I miss the old days on there and Gardenweb before that. I guess I need to check in more often.

[TX-TomatoBug]

I really wished I could read the dwarf breeding project threads when I first saw the site a few years back, apparently it was restricted to members only and not publicly available.

Me too.

[zeuspaul]

I haven't been on there for awhile since I'm just now gearing up for seed starting in Wyoming. How long has it been down? I miss the old days on there and Gardenweb before that. I guess I need to check in more often.

It's been down for three or four days. For the past few months it has been very slow. I am guessing they may be using their own server and perhaps it failed. I check in five or six times per week.

I just checked and it's still down. Google AI still gets it wrong. Once again they stated it that it was renamed to Tomato Junction but only for a period of time! This statement doesn't even make sense! Use AI at your own risk.
Tomato Junction: There was a period where Tomatoville was renamed to Tomato Junction, but Tomatoville is still active and Tomato Junction is a separate site.

I still receive emails from Houzz (Garden Web), nothing in the last few months from old subscribed threads at Garden Web.
.
.

tvl.png

[leftylogan]

@KaguyaCloud @TX-TomatoBug I had been going through the dwarf project threads quite a bit the past couple of months and there was less information than I remembered from when it was "live". I'm happy to screenshot and share things though if it comes back.

[ddsack]

Many of the photos showing Dwarf project results were linked from Photobucket, which went from free to pricing themselves out of reasonable price for casual use. For a while, the photos still showed but with an overlay of the Photobucket logo, but I think a lot have disappeared by now, so visual comparison of the generations of growouts likely has disappeared, unless those members are still paying Photobucket.

[Homegrwoninillinois]

If gone it will be a great loss of variety histories. I was never able to be a member but I read there frequently.

~Sam

[Frosti]

I really wished I could read the dwarf breeding project threads when I first saw the site a few years back, apparently it was restricted to members only and not publicly available.

same

[worth1]

Nerobefehl.
Nero Decree.
Scorched earth.

[bower]

The AI completely missed, and maybe some folks have forgotten, that the reason TJ was started was because of the announcement that TV was going to imminently close. In a beautiful gesture of community spirit, @Rajun Gardener stepped up and created this site so that former TV members could still find each other and remain a community.
As it happened, M. changed his mind and kept TV open. He developed a harsh attitude towards Tomato Junction as a 'rival' site, and a number of people were banned from Tomatoville simply for mentioning its existence.
Personally I'm very glad that TV remained open, and would be a loss to the internet to see it go down. It is an incredible repository of information about tomatoes, and a huge tribute to Carolyn in the long record of her words.

WRT AI, this thread with all the different responses is a caution alright! It's so tempting to trust what pops up...

[Paulf]

Over the years I remember mentioning "rival" sites and was not banished or threatened in any way. Perhaps it was the tone used in the mentioning or that my posts were overlooked as not very important. I do know there were some pretty acerbic exchanges that violated the bylaws seemingly intentionally meant to create bad situations. Another site I visited for a short time seemed to be based on that sort of thing. TV may have had strict regulations, but they were clearly stated and enforced. I do remember several banishments that were overturned and the posters reinstated after pleading that they didn't realize they were breaking the "law".

Here I am writing in the past tense... assumumtions lead to something sometimes.

[zeuspaul]

I recall 'M' specifically placing Tomato Junction off limits. I believe it was just in a post and not in the bylaws. I don't recall any other site that was banned from discussion. As @bower said he viewed it as unfavorable competition because it was specifically created as a replacement for TV ---- after he stated TV was closing down. After Carolyn's passing "M" lost interest in continuing the site and it seems like it has been only a matter of time for its actual closing. We still don't know if the site has closed and I agree that hopefully it has not. Lots of good history over there.

I post the AI results as a good example of how wrong it can be. Many of us are knowledgeable on the subject so we can clearly see the faults. AI posts can be completely wrong although they are posted as facts. It's just a cautionary note for reading AI on subjects we are less familiar with.

[karstopography]

Yes, I NEVER take the AI answers or explanations as some sort of absolute or indisputable truth. Maybe AI will improve in time, but I’ve seen other first hand examples besides this TV/TJ deal of AI getting things off, the events or facts muddled or facts or situations downright wrong.

Unfortunately, lots of students, university students on down, these days use AI to do the work the students are supposed to be doing for themselves, things like research, math solutions and even writing papers, My son, a senior at Texas, estimates about 1/3 of his classmates have Chat GPT up and running during classroom instruction. He can see their notebook screens from where he sits in the back of the class.

[pondgardener]

Hopefully, if the Tville tyrant has lost interest in continuing the site, he has a contingency plan to pass it on to someone else or allow the information there to be transferred. I remember when the Idigmygarden forum went dark and Mischka supposedly made the winning bid to preserve the information there and be available later. How did that work out?

[bower]

Well... my feelings at the time TJ formed, is that it was an existential threat. Not only the dissolution of our community but also the disappearance of everything we contributed there or continued to contribute (after it was not shut down). I truly can't remember if it was expressed or implied, that everything would vanish without a trace. But this is what I understood, and certainly shaped my feeling about continuing to post there vs starting a new 'life' here on TJ.

I never had a problem with Mischka's strict rules and moderation, personally, and really appreciated that the site was mostly very civil, and a great bunch of people. But when private ownership also means, it will all just cease to exist because I'm done with it, and will become a private record with no wayback, it really stung.

[KaguyaCloud]

Have there been any attempts in archiving the site before it was shut down?

[KaguyaCloud]

I looked into the ICANN Lookup website for "tomatoville.com" to see the status of their domain registry.
https://lookup.icann.org/en/lookup

The registration hasn't expired yet, as it expires 2028-01-18 19:03:58 UTC
However, a change has been done 1/19/24. It seems that the domain has been updated that particular day when it was down. I contacted godaddy.com to see if I could find anything. According to them, it seems that the site should still theoretically be up assuming everything is working. However, it seems that I cannot ping the name servers directly, which might indicate that the servers containing all the information may not be available anymore.

[Shule]

Have there been any attempts in archiving the site before it was shut down?

There were (probably several), but the Tomatoville owner sought to use legal authority to stop them from doing it. At least, that was the case soon after TomatoJunction was made. I don't know about now.

[worth1]

Nerobefehl.
Nero Decree.
Scorched earth.

For those not familiar with the term it was Adolfs last Decree not only to keep the invaders from having anything when they arrived and to keep them out it was to stop people from leaving Germany.
He said they deserved what they got for losing the war.
Relating to Nero supposedly burning Rome.
Both Nero and Adolf took their own lives.

Many of us tried to keep in touch by way of posting private messages but the owner shut down the private message center and banned all communication that had our email or phone numbers in it.
Then banned people or made navigation on the site miserable.
This was directly after the announcement of his shutting the site down.
He literally wanted to not only burn the place down but everyone on it and destroy the community of people that had long time friendships.
The actions of a little mad man trying to manipulate people inside his little self made empire by playing on their emotions including mine.
I'll never forgive these actions knowing he literally made some of my friends cry.
I was there from the very beginning from garden web.
And here from the very beginning of this site.
God bless the diligent actions of the owner for keeping many of us together and along the way making new friends.

[Frosti]

Nerobefehl.
Nero Decree.
Scorched earth.

For those not familiar with the term it was Adolfs last Decree not only to keep the invaders from having anything when they arrived and to keep them out it was to stop people from leaving Germany.
He said they deserved what they got for losing the war.
Relating to Nero supposedly burning Rome.
Both Nero and Adolf took their own lives.

Many of us tried to keep in touch by way of posting private messages but the owner shut down the private message center and banned all communication that had our email or phone numbers in it.
Then banned people or made navigation on the site miserable.
This was directly after the announcement of his shutting the site down.
He literally wanted to not only burn the place down but everyone on it and destroy the community of people that had long time friendships.
The actions of a little mad man trying to manipulate people inside his little self made empire by playing on their emotions including mine.
I'll never forgive these actions knowing he literally made some of my friends cry.
I was there from the very beginning from garden web.
And here from the very beginning of this site.
God bless the diligent actions of the owner for keeping many of us together and along the way making new friends.

This is the problem with privately owned forums. They can disappear on a whim with everything in it. The tyranny of an immature mod / owner can destroy years of work and leave community members stranded.

Afaik only the Area 51 sub forum is unreadable without signing up to the Junction, isn't it? That means everything else can be archived for eternity.

Edit: I just tried it, and Area 51 is also readable without signing in? Could have sworn that one used to be hidden from the public ...

[PlainJane]

I’d had enough with his behavior and beliefs and quit right after Marsha did. I’d been following because of the Karma breeding project Karen and Marsha were doing, and because of Carolyn.
This site is a dream compared to that.