Germinated Seed?

[TX-TomatoBug]

As I have never fermented tomato seed before, I am practicing with store-bought tomatoes so I know what I'm doing when it comes time to ferment the ones I really want to save later on.

In this photo, it looks to me like the 4 seeds on the right are not germinated while the five on the left are. Is that right?

The seed was from one tomato squeezed into a plastic cup, a paper-towel rubber-banded to the top, kept in the garage for 2 1/2 days at about 88 degrees. A white fungal mat developed then it turned black. Is it common for a few seed to germinate during the fermentation process or did I just let it go too long?

I appreciate any feedback from all you veteran seed-savers!

Did They Germinate.pdf

[TX-TomatoBug]

Don't know why the photo is not showing like I see in other posts. Please, please feel free to advise this newbie about photo attachments

[karstopography]

As I have never fermented tomato seed before, I am practicing with store-bought tomatoes so I know what I'm doing when it comes time to ferment the ones I really want to save later on.

In this photo, it looks to me like the 4 seeds on the right are not germinated while the five on the left are. Is that right?

The seed was from one tomato squeezed into a plastic cup, a paper-towel rubber-banded to the top, kept in the garage for 2 1/2 days at about 88 degrees. A white fungal mat developed then it turned black. Is it common for a few seed to germinate during the fermentation process or did I just let it go too long?

I appreciate any feedback from all you veteran seed-savers!

Did They Germinate.pdf

I have not had seeds germinate during the fermentation process. I looked at the photo. Here’s the deal with store bought tomatoes, sometimes those seeds germinate inside the store bought tomato during prolonged storage without any deliberate efforts to ferment or encourage germination. Using and comparing a long term cold storage, gassed store bought commodity type tomato in an experiment for seed fermentation to a garden grown tomato isn’t a good comparison. I think this type of exercise will only lead to confusion.

I don’t think I’d be practicing with store bought tomatoes. Skip that step and use and experiment with tomatoes and seeds from tomatoes you would actually want to subsequently plant.

[zeuspaul]

@TX-TomatoBug that's a pdf (Personal Documents File). You want an image file such as jpg or png. I converted by taking a screen shot and saving it as jpg file.

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seeds.jpg

[rdback]

...Is it common for a few seed to germinate during the fermentation process or did I just let it go too long?

In my experience, if I see radicles beginning to form, I've waited too long to process the ferment. The goal is to have the gel coat dissolve, not have the seed sprout.

[Seven Bends]

The seed was from one tomato squeezed into a plastic cup, a paper-towel rubber-banded to the top, kept in the garage for 2 1/2 days at about 88 degrees. A white fungal mat developed then it turned black. Is it common for a few seed to germinate during the fermentation process or did I just let it go too long?

I've had seeds germinate when I've left them fermenting too long. I ferment mine indoors in the extra bathroom, where temps are usually around 70-73 degrees, and it generally takes three days. My guess is that the 88-degree temperature sped up your process; probably the right time to remove the seeds was within a few hours of when the white fungal mat formed, before it turned black. Sounds like you did everything right, just take them out earlier next time.

[zeuspaul]

Fermenting may be the preferred method of saving seed but I have never used it. I squish the seed goop through a strainer then wash with a little oxiclean and then dry.

[TX-TomatoBug]

@karstopography Great insight about store-bought tomatoes and good advice. I will "practice" with some of the hybrid tomatoes I'm growing this year; and no, I won't be keeping those seeds. I plan to grow only open-pollinated/heirlooms next year - that's the seed I'll be saving for real. Can't hardly wait....!

[TX-TomatoBug]

@zeuspaul An image file. Of course! duhh Thank you!

There's a bunch of Oxiclean products. What is your preference? Does your process remove the gel coat? Seems like it would take the guess work out of the equation...

[TX-TomatoBug]

@Seven Bends I was surprised (and grossed out) that the white mat turned black overnight. Lesson learned - thanks!

[zeuspaul]

There's a bunch of Oxiclean products. What is your preference? Does your process remove the gel coat? Seems like it would take the guess work out of the equation...

I have OxiClean and OxoBrite. I don't have a preference. The process cleans the seeds and removes the gel coat. It may not remove all of it but it's good enough for me.

[Frosti]

the oxi method is a lot cleaner and quicker.

[bower]

You might be surprised to find that those little white tips are not sprouts at all, and the seeds are viable.
I've had what looks similar and thought they were sprouted, but turns out some tomatoes have a stronger fleshy bit where the seeds were originally attached, and it remained on the seeds, looking sprouty when the soft gel had all fermented away.
You could try those sprout looking test seeds on a paper towel, whether they do germinate.
Either way, you got some good advice here about when to rinse out your ferment.
There are so many random spores in the air, and they love to settle in on the 'mat' but they are not friendlies. I ended up switching to mason jars/lids for my seed kit, because they're easy to clean up properly, and there's less incidence of random molds.

[TX-TomatoBug]

You could try those sprout looking test seeds on a paper towel, whether they do germinate.

Ah nuts. I already threw them out. I'll keep your good advice in mind with the next attempt.

[TX-TomatoBug]

I was able to do a follow-up experiment. I successfully fermented seed from homegrown hybrids. There were a few seeds that appeared to be showing radicles with possible germination. So I did as @bower suggested and tried to sprout them. Also did the same with ones that did not show radicles. All at the same time, from the same batch, same conditions. There was 100% germination in both groups. @bower, you were right!

IMG_5758.jpeg

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IMG_5784.jpeg

[Ken4230]

There are so many random spores in the air, and they love to settle in on the 'mat' but they are not friendlies. I ended up switching to mason jars/lids for my seed kit, because they're easy to clean up properly, and there's less incidence of random molds.

I switched to wide mouth quart mason jars several years ago. The tomato is quartered, squeezed and dropped into the jar. Fill the jar 3/4 full with water, place ring and filter on, date and type of tomato on filter. Occasionally I will add a little sugar if I have had problems with that variety before. Ring is never removed until I am ready to dry the seeds. Usually 2 weeks or less, the seeds are ready.

I fill the jar and dump in commode, refill jar and let seeds settle and repeat until pulp is gone. 10 minutes and I am ready to start drying seeds.

[bower]

Interesting the addition of sugar @Ken4230 , I've never heard of that before, but I expect it would balance the larger amount of water, compared to most, and give the good organisms fuel for the ferment. I do find that the wetter the ferment, the easier it is to clean seeds. A lot of my batches are small because of breeding projects, and you have to add some water both at the beginning and at the end, before anything can be decanted. Maybe try adding sugar water, more of it, at the beginning?

[Seven Bends]

There are so many random spores in the air, and they love to settle in on the 'mat' but they are not friendlies. I ended up switching to mason jars/lids for my seed kit, because they're easy to clean up properly, and there's less incidence of random molds.

I switched to wide mouth quart mason jars several years ago. The tomato is quartered, squeezed and dropped into the jar. Fill the jar 3/4 full with water, place ring and filter on, date and type of tomato on filter. Occasionally I will add a little sugar if I have had problems with that variety before. Ring is never removed until I am ready to dry the seeds. Usually 2 weeks or less, the seeds are ready.

Interesting. I do mine in little plastic cups, and they're ready in 3-5 days. The one time I forgot about them and didn't check them until seven days, they were sprouting. This is indoors at a room temperature of 70-72 degrees. I put the gel and seeds in the cup (no tomato flesh) and usually don't add any water unless it's a particularly dry tomato or I'm working with a really small quantity of seeds.

I've generally been leaving the cups uncovered (as long as there aren't fruit flies around and the fermenting odor isn't too bad) because they seem to form a better fungal mat faster that way. I hadn't realized that could invite unfriendly fungi/spores.

[Ken4230]

Interesting the addition of sugar @Ken4230 , I've never heard of that before, but I expect it would balance the larger amount of water, compared to most, and give the good organisms fuel for the ferment. I do find that the wetter the ferment, the easier it is to clean seeds. A lot of my batches are small because of breeding projects, and you have to add some water both at the beginning and at the end, before anything can be decanted. Maybe try adding sugar water, more of it, at the beginning?

Had an old friend, long gone now, who showed me the sugar trick and using mason jars. He would take a pinch of yeast and put in every ferment. I used yeast from my beer making days until I ran out of packets, and then switched to sugar. I can't remember seeds ever sprouting during the ferment.
I think I ferment longer than most people, usually 85/90% germination or better. Now about the only time I test germination is if I send seeds to someone.

[FatBeeFarm]

@Seven Bends I was fermenting seeds for the first time this year, in my dining room, using those little plastic cups and something nasty got in there and ruined everything. Some green/black fuzzy slime stuff. I had to toss everything. I had over twenty different varieties fermenting. I was going to do as @MissS said and put them in the garage but I felt it was too hot in there. Mrs. Fat Bee was not too pleased with me with the stink and mess. I was way more upset with myself though for losing all those seeds. Maybe I'll try Oxiclean instead.