Diverse shallots from true seeds

[worth1]

Are these things blooming now or what?
I may have missed something.

[bower]

Worth, they bloomed last summer, starting about midsummer and on til the end of July. They're under a snowbank right now... dreaming of bees.

[Whwoz]

One impressive collection you have there Bower

[bower]

Whwoz, well I suppose there is not much interest in the flowering characteristics of shallots, a sensible person might have torn them up for not bulbing, or at minimum pinched off all those buds when they came. But I'm determined this is going to be the bulb year. Wonder how much variation there will be in bulb characteristics... I expect some kind of variation so I hope I'm not disappointed.
These I assume to be Allium cepa var aggregatum, which means they should easily be crossed with onions as well. I really like the idea of having a perennial source of seeds and/or sets for anything that resembles an onion.

[Whwoz]

Whwoz, well I suppose there is not much interest in the flowering characteristics of shallots, a sensible person might have torn them up for not bulbing, or at minimum pinched off all those buds when they came. But I'm determined this is going to be the bulb year. Wonder how much variation there will be in bulb characteristics... I expect some kind of variation so I hope I'm not disappointed.
These I assume to be Allium cepa var aggregatum, which means they should easily be crossed with onions as well. I really like the idea of having a perennial source of seeds and/or sets for anything that resembles an onion.

Bower, Hope you get the variation you are looking for and if they survive a bit of snow while in the ground even better I take it

[bower]

So far they are super hardy - as long as they aren't in the bulb state, I guess. The shoots have been through hell for two seasons and seemed to like it.
A friend and I tried some other varieties of shallots/multipliers, which sadly none of them did well here as a fall planted bulb. Advice from Scandinavia is to plant them in spring instead. So whatever bulbs or sets I can produce, I'll store for spring planting to avoid the winter woes.
I suspect the diversity in these may be tropical in origin. At least the descriptions of diversity in Ethiopia, Indonesia, Vietnam and India are in keeping with the variety of plant habits in this lot. The European races of shallots may have already been selected quite hard to adapt them to a northern climate - at least I'm guessing that's why some folks have gotten seed from their shallots and the seed seems more or less true to the parent.
IDK if they have it in them to adapt to this place, time will tell...

[bower]

The shallots all made it through the winter, to put it mildly! They were up before the garlic, up earlier and bigger than chives, and they're way, way bigger than my Egyptian onions, Hardy Evergreen, perennial green onion, or leeks this spring. They outstripped everything (but the garlic is catching up).

Anyway I should have had a place ready to plant em out but I didn't, and had to wait on getting some compost. Finally have some new beds ready, and started the big dig today. The ones with the fattest shoots which haven't bolted yet are the ones that are getting planted singly like onion sets, about an inch and a half apart in rows 7-8 inches apart. These here are the tall ones, and I have another small bed for some medium height starts. I'm hoping they will produce a single bulb this way... we shall see!

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[bower]

Here are some of the tall plants that I'm trying in the bulb rows. I'm told that those with fewer shoots will tend to make bigger bulbs, so there's a group of those, and there are also a couple that have very big bunches. So we'll see if it's true, will spacing stop them from multiplying.

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[Shule]

[mention]Bower[/mention]
How are things going now?

[GoDawgs]

[mention]Bower[/mention]

Yes, I'd like to see how you made out with these. Shallots are another one of those things I shouldn't be able to grow because of my climate but one never knows!

[Whwoz]

Interested here also [mention]Bower[/mention]. It seems to me that these are behaving more like bunching onions than shallots with their failure to bulb up.

[bower]

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Well they had a rough time after transplant but have recovered now. Didn't seem to like being trimmed. You can see they have divided some - mostly just into two. No sign of bulbing at this date. I had to nip buds off of all of them.
The spring shoots were a big hit though, for early CSA share. And the flowers have been a big hit with the bees. So if that's all they do for us, I guess I'll take it... I wonder if I had done the transplants earlier, would that have made a difference.
Here is a pic of the trial bed today.

[bower]

@Bower

Yes, I'd like to see how you made out with these. Shallots are another one of those things I shouldn't be able to grow because of my climate but one never knows!

I think they might bulb for you in your climate. Shallots are tropical in origin, so they should like the heat. It's cold weather that makes them bolt.
I have one little one that got left in the tray the first year... it made a little bulb.
It got left outdoors over winter, and didn't die, but it sat there neglected and not potted up until in the fall I brought it into the greenhouse. When it started to green this spring I stuck it in a pot. It has divided into two but not a sign of bolting. I assume it will make a bulb again when it's ready.

[Paquebot]

The large clusters which look like bunching onions is normal. Not what one would normally want but the result of how they grow. When using them for cooking, the largest are used. When planting for large bulbs, the opposite is true. Small bulbs make fewer divisions which result in large bulbs. Large bulbs make many divisions and produce small bulbs. In C7 and A10, Bower was on the way to producing an awful lot of potential large bulbs next year!

Martin

[Paquebot]

I'll add that when I grew them from seed they were started early like onions. Then planted the same way as onion plants. Never tried growing them in clumps to get sets but that is what would have happened to those depicted by Bower if they were left in the ground to mature. The resulting small sets should make 2 or 3 large bulbs next season.

Martin

[Shule]

You should try crossing regular onions with them. They're supposed to be the same species (Allium cepa, and Allium cepa var. aggregatum). If you're getting flowers reliably, it might be worth a try.

[Paquebot]

Hybrid shallots are indeed the same as onions. They are already mixed up and will produce a wide difference on their own. One thing that I found by saving seeds is that they quickly became dividing rather than bulbing. That was with Bonilla but didn't produce seed from Ambition. Only Zebrune resulted in true-to-type seed. It was a fun experiment!

Martin

[bower]

I suppose the dividing trait must be dominant.
It would be fun to cross them with onions.. but I don't know if I have much hope of getting something that won't bolt in this climate. It's like a yoyo.

I wonder, if it would be worth trying to roll them down to get them to bulb. Maybe I should put a cover over the bed to keep them warm(er) and dry, just let em go dry and... well that's what they say. If it gets too dry, go dormant and make a bulb.
Too late now, 35 mm rain on the way before morning. Maybe next week, if it's summer again.

[Shule]

Or if you want a really wild experiment, I've heard that Egyptian Walking onions resulted from a cross between Allium cepa and Allium fistulosum; maybe if you crossed shallots with Allium fistulosum you might get something pretty interesting. Crimson Forest is a bulbing Allium fistulosum that might be great to experiment with; plus, the greens are really tasty, and decently tall (or at least not super short).

Allium fistulosum flowers sooner than regular onions; so, it might be easier to cross with shallots, since they probably flower at similar times.

[ponyexpress]

It would be fun to cross them with onions..

How exactly would someone cross shallots with onions? Wait for the stalk to appear and then bag both of them? Use a q-tip on one plant to fertilize the other?