How to " dry out" an EarthBox?

[Greatgardens]

When using screening materials to cover the grate, are the roots still able to penetrate into the reservoir? I've thought about using fiberglass window screen, but never actually tried it. I do wet the mix that lays directly on the grate, so not a lot falls through. This should be an interesting season with the EB's!

[Barb_FL]

Larry - I have so many roots in the reservoir using either the shade cloth or window screening. I really don't think it makes any difference with air flow.

I just filled a new EB and along with the window screening, I put a layer of the Roots Organic Coco Chips on top of that but not over the wicking corners. I've put the screening/shade cloth over the wicking corners and see no difference. I need to fill my EB daily with water (or water / nutrients).

On some EB, I get roots coming out of the overflow area.

[MsCowpea]

I agree with Barb . There are so many roots in an earthbox . Does sometimes seem to almost fill the reservoir and entangle the screen. But maybe that doesn’t matter. I don’t know. I have never reused the mix (The very few times I did reuse I decided just to start fresh every year as the boxes looked so gunked up when emptied). But if people do reuse and it has equally good results then maybe the roots break down by the time your next season rolls around? ( I also mixed in my organic fertilizer for years as that is what they told you to do and I was using a peat based mix. )

The only time I think you may not get so many roots is when you are reusing and have a very dense mix that you don’t water every day. I think roots are not as happy in a dense mix. But As long as the results are good then EB must be still working. When you start get smaller and smaller tomatoes not living up to variety’s potential then I guess it is time to change the mix.

[MsCowpea]

Any opinions on this:
With a new mix you have to water everyday. With an old mix or even a new denser mix maybe less. Do you think the old mix or a denser mix where you are watering less would produce a tomato that is more ‘dried farm’ which is very little watering once it is established.

Or do you think the dense box that is ‘wetter’ would produce a tomato that is blander because of the extra water? Does that make sense? I was wondering because (with just a very few exceptions) I have never reused my mix so I wondered if reusing the mix the second time around might be better in some way by requiring less water. Or do they need to be watered every day too? This year I will set aside some boxes to reuse so I will be able to tell if the results are the same, worse, or better.

On the opposite side to a dense mix:
(I do know I had delicious tomatoes with a new, very heavy on the bark mix that required water every day . I used organic fertilizer which IMHO makes a difference). So I guess there are a lot of ways to go about this with good results.
I just always thought the dryer the mix the better hence the pine bark use but peat based works too for a lot of people.

I have some tomatoes right now hanging on really diseased plants so I decided not to water the earthbox (they are going to die anyway) and won’t produce anymore tomatoes. So I want to see if I can ‘dry farm’ an earthbox.
The best tomato I have ever had was dried farmed.

[Greatgardens]

I received replies from both the Pro-Mix and Sun Gro folks about better draining mixes. Pro Mix suggested a local supplier for Pro-Mix HP. I was unaware of a local source, so that is a good option. Sun Gro's horticulturalist recommended Black Gold Organic mixed 4:1 with added perlite. ACE Hardware carries it, but I'll have to wait until nearer to spring. I suspect that Black Gold is going to be more expensive than I am willing to spend. She also made the point that if the holes in the grate are plugged, it can lead to water logging. I can see that if the grate is plugged, it would cause problems in a heavy rain. I've also been going through the Q&A section of the archived EarthBox forum. There isn't much info in the new forum. One of the things that I ran across was using screening on the grate as suggested here.

[pepperhead212]

I see you've found that archived EB forum - the place I learned most of my tips originally, while it was operative. That's where I found out about the screening, as well as the "brewer's sock" for the fertilizer. There's still a lot of info on there, if you have the time to search through it.

[Greatgardens]

Yes, there is a ton of info there, but as you mention, it is tough slogging through it since the SEARCH function is inoperative. Here's a link for anyone that might be interested --

http://web.archive.org/web/201611242034 ... ox.com:80/

I read that thread/post about the brewers sock as well. That's interesting.

[Greatgardens]

Here's another one (maybe) -- what are your thoughts about pine needles (pine straw)? I have several large pine trees and plenty of pine needles. They would be acidic, but I'm thinking in terms of a inch or so on top of the separator grate.

[Barb_FL]

The pine needles sounds like a bad idea; it would totally change your PH. The last EB I made up, I put screening over the EB Screen and then put the Root's Organic Coco Chips on top of the screen but not over the wicking corners. I think they get plenty of air with the screen or shade cloth, but still did it.

What is the brewer's sock? Let me guess - is it the fertilizer strip in a sock?

If the plants are taking the fertilizer from the strip, shouldn't there be a lot of roots on the top of the EB? i know last season, on the Root Pouches (fabric bags), I top dressed the plants with 1 TBLS of Happy Frog weekly and after awhile the water would just pool on top - assuming roots were very close to the top. I've rarely done that this season, and water drains fine.

[Greatgardens]

I tried some coco chips once, although it was above ground as a mulch. They matted together with white mold/fungus into "sheets." (That didn't hurt anything as a mulch other than looked unsightly.) Did your chips do something similar on top of the grate?

Yes, that's what I think a brewer's sock is, also. I can't find a link to that thread since the archive is not searchable. I've never tried it, but I can't imagine a lot of benefit from using one. I also tried search engines, and all they present are footwear.

[pepperhead212]

The brewing socks make it easy to remove the fertilizer at the end of the season, and you don't have the mushy spread out line of fertilizer. And the plants seem to be growing as well as the ones with the fertilizer in the loose lines.

[Barb_FL]

I just lost my post.

PepperHead - what fertz do you use in the EB? I initially use Tomato Tone but think it's done pretty quickly so feed down the tube. I've also done EB without any added fertz and just fed TTF down the tube and the tomatoes were awesome.

Larry - I have/had 3 EB without covers that I tested this season. 2 had rice hulls on top, 1 have 50% RH and 50% of the Roots Organic Coco Chips. No mold at all and I live in a very humid climate. Root Pouches grow moss on them......humid. Of the 2 remaining EB, both have tomatoes - the 3rd had broccoli (done) so I just mixed in the rice hulls and sowed lettuce seeds.

What's surprising to me is the Rice Hulls don't blow away at all and I have tons of wind often. If the EB get rained, so be it.

[MsCowpea]

. I've also done EB without any added fertz and just fed TTF down the tube and the tomatoes were awesome.

Boy, I find that really interesting. The mix wouldn’t get mucked up at all. How much and how frequently did you put down the tube?
Wonder if that would work with one of soluble organic fertilizer I just got. Did you find you got as many tomatoes as w the TT and MC?

[Barb_FL]

I get way more tomatoes with the liquids; even in the coir bags which I grew heirlooms except for one plant of Chef Choice Orange (hybrid).

The year of just TTF, I fed it often - almost daily. I was very influenced by AKMark's feeding schedule although he used chem-gro. Ginny (used to belong to TV, from Florida too) did the 3 day on with TTF, 2 day off. She had amazing tomatoes and really lived in a rain tunnel (Oak Hill closer to Daytona).

Also, MC smells kind of organic / molasses lik. Not chicken manure or fish organic. That's why I was surprised it didn't have organic ingredients.

On the Root Pouches - I would also get more large tomatoes than EBs

Today I mixed Aurora Soul Grow (8-0-0), with Soul Big Swell (2-5-3) = 10-5-3 + I added soluble Kelp to bump the K; I fed a bunch of plants in the 3 week ago disaster zone with it. The Aurora stuff was samples from my hydro store.

What organic liquid did you buy? I'm always buying stuff - just because. One thing I have NEVER done is put a fish organic like Neptune's Harvest down the tube. I have them all too.

[pepperhead212]

I just lost my post.

PepperHead - what fertz do you use in the EB? I initially use Tomato Tone but think it's done pretty quickly so feed down the tube. I've also done EB without any added fertz and just fed TTF down the tube and the tomatoes were awesome.

I don't remember the brands (I think Hyponex one time) - just some granular 10-10-10 fertilizers I got a couple of times, 20 lb bags of at Ollie's. I used 2 1/2 c in a new tomato or eggplant SIP, 2 c in the rest (2/3 c in 2 sections in the bucket sized SIPs), and I add some to the SIP the next season, more in the tomato, EP, and cucumber SIPs, as those got watered more, and used up more of the fertilizer. In addition to these, I add some bloom fertilizers, along with some hydroponics additions, periodically to the reservoirs, and the snacks of CaNO3 to the tomatoes.

And here is a photo of those brewer's sock, which I get at least 2 seasons out of, often 3, before they start rotting. I put the long ones in the big SIPs, and two small pieces, with 1/3 c each in the buckets.
Brewer's socks, about 2 1/2 feet long, for fertilizer strip. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

[MsCowpea]

Barb, If MC is like molasses or organic-like maybe it has more organic inputs than I thought. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that they didn’t have any —just that it would not be close to organic because the rest of the ingredients aren’t allowed. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work great and maybe the added organic ingredients add a special input that is missing in pure hydroponics. Organic designations are very strict as to what they allow and don’t allow. That just means it can’t be used in organic operations but most people don’t care about that anyway, Combining the two seems to be the best of two worlds for a lot of people. (I will get a sample and try it too )

Pepperhead, I ordered those very same brewing socks once I read about it. I tried them but I must not have got into them because I use organic fertilizer and wasn’t sure it was getting through.)

Great garden, I just read about pine needles. They are acidic but take a really long time to break down unless you shred them. Maybe they would be OK in the earthbox to try as an experiment. One thing about adding anything that is free (no $$$) on top of the EB grate is you potentially cut down on the expensive mix you use. Maybe even crushed soda cans would work? I have seen people use them in containers. Hope they wouldn’t give off aluminum.
Wonder what the least amount of potting mix would be required? As long as it is getting the fertilizer maybe you can cut way back on the mix. But I believe the original inventor tried all sorts of configurations.

If your goal is a ‘dryer mix’ I still think an additive like pine bark, perlite, or something like that into the mix might work. But maybe it would defeat your purpose if you have to water the EB twice as much? I don’t know.

[Greatgardens]

Hmm... My post just disappeared, also. We'll see if this one goes through, or somehow ends up later as a double-post.

@MsCowpea- What is the "silicon" that you referred to above? And I don't understand how down-the tube would cause issues with the mix? Causing the mix to decompose more rapidly? I still remember the original video of set up which I found again on YouTube. I went back and watched the original EB videos (3 parts):

It is very interesting to see how far I have "drifted" from Blake's original intents. I may be the problem! I am going to dump all the boxes (9), and start over with fresh mix. I think that I'll set up at least several boxes -exactly- as they suggest. A couple more with screen (or?) covering the grate.

The "brewer's sock" -- where did you find that? Does it have any other name (since I kept coming up with baseball socks)?

[MsCowpea]

Great gardens, what I was saying was that liquid down the tube would NOT cause any issues with mucking up the mix as opposed to mixing in 3 cups of organic fertilizer. But feeding down the tube constantly does defeat the original earthbox idea which was to place your fertilizer strip, cover , and never worry about fertilizing again. Just water. That is what made it a great product. It was fool proof.

Starting with fresh mix sounds like a good idea. I think it would take awhile for it to break down and get ‘soupy’ which was one of your concerns. If you were able to try a couple different pre-made mixes you could see at the end of the season if you preferred one or the other.

As far as the screen, I just pulled off any of the roots that entangled it and grew in the reservoir and started over. But I can understand why people want some sort of screening. Particularly in an old box. But I worried a bit about the various materials that were available as I didn’t want anything leaching into the box. (Of course any leaching may be so minuscule or non-existent that it is a total non-issue). I did wonder about the pipe wrap that I use as I am not sure what it is made of. At one time I thought about using cotton cheese cloth because it would be all natural and just rot. One good thing about EB is that they use food grade plastic.

CORRECTION (re Silicon: if you look under Disease post ‘Synthetic Disease Control’ silicon is discussed as it relates to disease suppression.)

[Greatgardens]

Oh... Potassium Silicate spray. Got it.

[pepperhead212]

Great Gardens I posted this link on the "Synthetic Disease Control" thread - a source for potassium silicate, cheaper than the liquids. You make your own solutions. I put some of that in the EBs early on, but I am going to try the spray this season, as well.


The brewer's socks I got from ebay, a bag of 50 of them really cheap. I'll see if I can find the source, though I'm sure there are a bunch.