A few years back, my oldest friend was at her friend, Jen's house. Jen was growing tomatoes, and she had a stack of the most perfect, uniform, round black tomatoes on her counter. When ripe, the dark green shoulders extended more than half way down the tomato, and when cut into, it was not perfectly dark red or burgundy, but had green and red "Streaks" in the flesh. Jen could not remember the variety, a seedling she picked up at a local nursery.

My friend saved seed and gave me some to grow out the next year - the same year I grew Black Krim, and Black From Tula.

What I got was not what my friend described, but a Cherokee Purple lookalike that was unlike any CP I have ever grown. No fused blossoms, no extremes in sizing. Just the most perfectly round, perfectly uniform in color and size LARGE black tomatoes. And perhaps one of the best tasting fruits I have ever had. It was clear that season it absolutely was not Krim or BFT. So the next year I grew it out against a new seed source for Cherokee Purple. It wasn't the same.

Last Year, we both grew it against Gary'O Sena. Not a match. I also contacted the nursery Jen bought it from, and they informed me they only sell seedlings of commonly known varieties like CP, Krim and Tula. This year, we are growing it against Carbon. Also not a match.

I also recalled a podcast with Craig Lehoullier who mentioned that most of the CP seed in circulation from various seed companies was not actually CP, but Krim or another black mislabled, or an unintended cross. This makes me wonder if perhaps what we have is the ACTUAL Cherokee Purple, and the CP seeds I've grown before were mislabled, as Craig suggested.

I'm posting pic of Jen's Perfect Mystery and wondering aloud if anyone besides Craig could recognize Cherokee Purple on sight?

It's a long shot, I know. I'm thinking next year we may want to put it against Indian Stripe and Cherokee Chocolate.

While my not even being close to an amateur level with the forms of dark tomatoes, I have noticed that Cherokee Purple does have a high tendency to produce "innie" belly button blossom ends, like in your pic. I do not recall, nor want to recall, the characteristics of almost all dark tomatoes that I've trialed.

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

edit - I don't know if I had the real CP.

Pretty! All I have grown is the wildly variable Cherokee Purple.

Craig happily answers emails. Worth a shot to get your answer from him.

A beautiful tomato regardless of the name. Dana's Dusky Rose is another good black that maybe worth checking out. @Ginger2778 rates it highly from memory

Look at Paul Robeson. First picture at Baker Creek has an innie on the blossom end. Other than that, guessing tomato varieties is usually an exercise in futility.

https://www.rareseeds.com/tomato-paul-robeson

Tormato wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:22 pm While my not even being close to an amateur level with the forms of dark tomatoes, I have noticed that Cherokee Purple does have a high tendency to produce "innie" belly button blossom ends, like in your pic. I do not recall, nor want to recall, the characteristics of almost all dark tomatoes that I've trialed.

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

edit - I don't know if I had the real CP.

Oh good observation! That's why I posted - I knew someone would notice things we did not.

Mark_Thompson wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:54 pm Look at Paul Robeson. First picture at Baker Creek has an innie on the blossom end. Other than that, guessing tomato varieties is usually an exercise in futility.

https://www.rareseeds.com/tomato-paul-robeson

Good call! I just emailed my friend the link.

We will do that grow out next season!

When I tried Cherokee Purple directly from Baker Creek, I got pretty uniform large fruits. They were super juicy. Quite purple. No green shoulders (but even things that are supposed to get green shoulders rarely get them in our garden). Very prolific in the best spot in the garden. I could probably recognize the plant again if I grew it because it tends to reliably wilt in my garden during the heat unless I water it every day (same for my bicolor Cherokee Lime offtype). I didn't notice dimples. I didn't notice dimples in Paul Robeson when I grew it, either, but the fruits were undersized; they were solid brown; pictures online of Paul Robeson I've seen appear closer to what you describe than what I grew. My Paul Robesons were really good; they were very juicy, had very little hang time, and they had more smokey flavor than any tomato I've ever eaten.

While I don't tend to think what you're describing is necessarily an established variety (it could be a sport/mutant/cross), another possible variety compared with Cherokee Purple is JD's Special C-Tex. Cherokee Chocolate does seem like a good idea to try.

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts and suggestions. I have sent Craig a message through his website "contact" page. I have not received a reply as yet.

I tend to think it is most likely a cross that has stabilized because, Occam's razor. Regardless, "Jen's" tomato remains on the permanent grow list for my garden friends and I!

JosephineRose wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:47 am Thank you everyone for all your thoughts and suggestions. I have sent Craig a message through his website "contact" page. I have not received a reply as yet.

I tend to think it is most likely a cross that has stabilized because, Occam's razor. Regardless, "Jen's" tomato remains on the permanent grow list for my garden friends and I!

You might try him on Instagram.

Why isn't he on Wikipedia? You'd think his work with the Cherokee Purple tomato alone would be notable enough for that, considering it's one of the world's most popular heirlooms. He's even been in the New York Times.

Thanks for the suggestion - just tried him on Insta. He does not accept messages there from strangers.

I emailed Craig once, it took him a long time to reply but when he did he was extremely helpful and gracious. Even sent me some tomato seeds.

Craig replied this weekend!

He was incredibly gracious and very helpful. Jen's is "not quite" Cherokee Purple, and he thinks most likely also not Paul Robeson which has a yellow epidermis (didn't realize this).

He made some suggestions of Millard Murdock varieties to grow out to compare, which I will do next season!

We are becoming more convinced that though Cherokee Purple is likely a part of Jen's lineage, she is her own variety now. This season will be F5, and we should be harvesting in the next month or so.