Well I'll be darned! I have been tricked for decades.

Vegetarian Protein Is Just As 'Complete' As Meat, Despite What We've Been Taught
We're hanging on to notions from a 1970s diet fad that's a "complete" waste of our time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetari ... 9e56bb3224

zeuspaul wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 2:03 am Well I'll be darned! I have been tricked for decades.

Vegetarian Protein Is Just As 'Complete' As Meat, Despite What We've Been Taught
We're hanging on to notions from a 1970s diet fad that's a "complete" waste of our time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetari ... 9e56bb3224

Research on what people ate years ago in the America's Asia and Europe will justify that.
Many people didn't get to eat meat of any kind they were so poor.
Or it was reserved for royalty and the likes.
Rest assured they weren't all eating giant steak by the fire every day.
But some did.

I knew a woman from Veitnam that said in her country one chicken feed whole family one week.
Now I eat whole chicken one meal.
She was from a small village there.

worth1 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 6:03 am I knew a woman from Veitnam that said in her country one chicken feed whole family one week.
Now I eat whole chicken one meal.
She was from a small village there.

my wife did a lot of reading, and research, and we still have a lot of reference material from mcdougall, and fuhrman.
if you want to design a healthy vegetarian diet, those two are a good place to start. they don't see eye to eye on some
things. they are both drs, and there might be some ego involved.
my wife wanted our son to eat vegan for the first five years of life so he would start off having clean arteries.
we went on one of mcdougalls adventure vacations to costa rica when my son was two. we ate some really good food
during the week completely vegetarian except for the two raw oysters i ate after i saw a tour guide slurping several down
and saying how good they were. i thought when will i ever have a chance to try really fresh oysters again.

its not that red meat is bad for you. it is more about how the meat animals are raised, and the amount we are eating.
grass fed beef has a more favorable fatty acid profile than grain fed beef. farm raised chicken (ours) is going to be much
healthier, and free of any chemicals or drugs compared to store bought. fast food equals faster onset of health problems.
sugar is a big problem. sugar has an inflammatory effect on your arteries young people that load up on sugar on a daily
basis will start to show coronary artery disease asymptomatic, but there none the less.

i can eat vegetarian and be ok with it, but i am a meat eater. if you follow blood type diet which i don't, type O people tend
to be meat eaters. it is more about the quantity consumed that makes meat bad for you. we don't need to eat a pound of meat
a day or meat with breakfast, lunch, and dinner. i dislike saying use moderation, because moderation means different things to
different people. you can't measure moderation. if you have a diet induced health issue, using moderation is still going to kill you.

finally, recent research has shown that processed foods and the amount consumed can lead to shorter life expectancy.
look up robert lustig. he is at university of california san francisco.


keith

Tormato wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 6:53 am

"No Coke--Pepsi"

My mom, who gave up eating meat at age 85, has often talked about their diet when she was growing up, and how infrequently and small amount of meat they ate compared to the 'typical' north american diet.

But I don't really agree with the article - they are basically saying that a vegetarian diet is not incomplete because it includes a variety of different protein sources. That doesn't change the fact that individual vegetable proteins are 'incomplete' and that we are complementing them by eating a diversity of fruits veggies and etc.
It's also true that vegetable sources of protein are somewhat less bioavailable, some contain antinutrients as well, so may need to consume somewhat more of them to fulfill your protein requirements. Not saying that it can't be done, but these are the facts.
I don't like that the article trivializes protein requirements, which vary quite a bit depending on your lifestyle and your age. If you're a young journalist with lifestyle behind a desk, you don't have the same needs as a farmer, an athlete, or an elderly person. There are specific benefits from animal proteins (as there are from vegetable proteins) which may be less important or more so, depending on the individual, lifestyle, age, health conditions, and probably genetics.

This article that reviews protein types including supplements for athletes also looks at some of the issues commented above.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905294/

This is what they say about the "complete vs incomplete" question:
"Typically, all dietary animal protein sources are considered to be complete proteins. That is, a protein that contains all of the essential amino acids. Proteins from vegetable sources are incomplete in that they are generally lacking one or two essential amino acids. Thus, someone who desires to get their protein from vegetable sources (i.e. vegetarian) will need to consume a variety of vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes to ensure consumption of all essential amino acids. As such, individuals are able to achieve necessary protein requirements without consuming beef, poultry, or dairy."
There's absolutely no difference in the conclusions here, but they don't use doublespeak to throw out the established terminology and facts.

Don't forget that the same research on food nutrients is used to design and produce bulk diets for animals. You can't just feed the chickens barley. Or any one grain or legume. And that is because, individual vegetable protein sources are 'incomplete'. So I don't see that anything is gained by changing these factual terms. They will continue to be used in science, for sure.

There are very few carnivores in nature.
Most every animal is an omnivore of some sort.
Dogs will even go around eating berries when in season.
I knew some Boston terriers that lived on a peach orchard.
They were always laying in the barn eating peaches.
So in my opinion humans being animals are omnivore not vegetarian by nature.

Another problem I have is the term vegan.
Most people I have talked to confuse vegan for vegetarian.
They are not the same in the true sense of the words.
A true vegan would never use an animal to do work nor would they harm an animal for any purpose.
One young Mexican guy told me something I never thought of before.
Many vegans have no problems eating vegetables being farmed and gathered by Mexican immigrants being exploited and exposed to lord only knows what.
So true that is.
Not beating up on anyone's lifestyle but it is something to think about.
But the reality is many people become vegetarian due to reasons other than healthy eating.
In closing.
The next time you proudly snack on your all vegetarian burger because you don't like the way a chicken or pig is raised.
Think of the multy generational family's including often times children that help bring that food to your table.
I can't count how many friends I've made that started out picking fruits and vegetables in the Rio Grand valley of Mexico and Texas or the fields of California as children.

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am Dogs will even go around eating berries when in season.
I knew some Boston terriers that lived on a peach orchard.
They were always laying in the barn eating peaches.

I had a beagle who would eat anything. He would even drink orange juice.

Setec Astronomy wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 12:30 pm

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 11:47 am Dogs will even go around eating berries when in season.
I knew some Boston terriers that lived on a peach orchard.
They were always laying in the barn eating peaches.

I had a beagle who would eat anything. He would even drink orange juice.

I had a puppy a nice girl I knew at school gave me in the 7th grade.
I named him Rip.
The dog would eat anything I ate.
He would even lay down in the green bean rows and eat one green bean at a time without hurting the plants.
Another dog we had would eat poke berries.
Yet another dog later in life would eat raw potatoes without any help from us.
He would go the the potato sack and get one at a time each night to eat.
He was also a friend of chickens.
He would hang out with them like they were his buddies.
Even in the live oak trees they roosted in.
It's a little weird to see a big red bull dog mix 10 feet in a tree with chickens laying down like no big deal on a limb.
One cat I had would eat anything orange or yellow.

Most of the people of the world are vegetarian, just not by choice.

B12 being necessary to live and only being in meat is another debunked myth. If that were true, most people in China and India would be dead already. It turns out that there is b12 on vegetables, if not in them, deposited there by insects.

I got turned onto nutritional yeast when I was first vegetarian many years ago. Fantastic stuff, great taste, very versatile, chock full of B vitamins.