Damping Off/Root Rot/Etc.

[Setec Astronomy]

I've been growing peas for a few years and consistently get some sort of fungal disease where the plants die from the bottom up. I'm growing in planters on my deck. Last year I started the peas as seedlings indoors to give them more of a head start outside, and had my best success yet, but they still succumbed later on.

One year I used a bunch of hydrogen peroxide to try to sterilize the soil, but that didn't really seem to help. I generally plant with some sort of inoculant, but I'm thinking I need some sort of regular treatment. I'd prefer to use OMRI treatments, I'm thinking dosing things with Actinovate or Serenade every week might help.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

[Tormahto]

Planters on the deck means a soil born problem might be solved relatively easy. Discard the old soil, get new pots or sterilize the old ones, and get new soil. If that is your real problem.

With planters, high soil temp could be a problem. Double potting, and a thick layer of mulch could help.

Instead of growing and transplanting seedlings, I sometimes "chit" seeds.

[brownrexx]

I would plant a "control" batch in the ground to see if they have the same problem. Compare them to those grown in planters.

[MissS]

MycoGrow has helped significantly for me in controlling damping-off and any soil borne molds.

I just looked at the price and it has really gone up.
https://fungi.com/collections/mycogrow

[Setec Astronomy]

I plan to use the MycoGrow based on your thread from last year or the year before, but I feel like I need to do something more like sterilzation with one of those SaniDate or OxiDate products or I see they sell 12% hydrogen peroxide on Amazon. The Oxidate says you can use it as a soil drench during the life of the plant. I was thinking more along the lines of doing a pre-plant sterilization, then some biofungal dip and inoculant at planting, and then a periodic soil drench with a biofungal, I see there is a new one called Howler.

[MissS]

I plan to use the MycoGrow based on your thread from last year or the year before, but I feel like I need to do something more like sterilzation with one of those SaniDate or OxiDate products or I see they sell 12% hydrogen peroxide on Amazon. The Oxidate says you can use it as a soil drench during the life of the plant. I was thinking more along the lines of doing a pre-plant sterilization, then some biofungal dip and inoculant at planting, and then a periodic soil drench with a biofungal, I see there is a new one called Howler.

If you decide to use a fungicide such as Howler, then skip using any kind of mycos. MycoGrow and similar products are adding the beneficial fungi and bacterial to your growing medium. If you use a fungicide, that will kill them and defeat the purpose. When I use the MycoGrow I find that the good fungi take over and eliminate the bad spores or make it very difficult for them to take a hold.

[Setec Astronomy]

Over in this thread post18397.html?hilit=mycogrow#p18397 mixing MycoGrow, Biota Max, and Actinovate was mentioned...wouldn't the Actinovate also kill the MycoGrow fungi? At the MycoGrow website they mention chemical fungicides not being good, I've emailed them to ask about biofungals.

[MissS]

I do know that amideutch has used the two products together as a root dip for some years now. Both of these product form a symbiotic relationship with the roots. It was a good idea to ask them your question because I don't know the answer other than that people do mix them together.

Another product that I have used and had good results with was Mosser Lee - No Damp Off. It is a soilless mix for seed starting. I don't know if you would want to use it for your boxes though.

If your plants are dying from the bottom up, it does suggest that it might be some sort of drainage or aeration problem. Adding some Gypsum to the bottom layer of the soil might be beneficial.

[Setec Astronomy]

If your plants are dying from the bottom up, it does suggest that it might be some sort of drainage or aeration problem. Adding some Gypsum to the bottom layer of the soil might be beneficial.

It's the peas that are doing that, this is one of those self-watering planters with the grow bag in it, which tends to stay pretty wet. I think I have some perlite somewhere that I may mix in.

[MissS]

@Setec Astronomy Yes, thank you for correcting me, perlite is what I meant. It's great at keeping some air in the soil.

[Setec Astronomy]

MissS, which flavor of the MycoGrow do you use?

[Tormahto]

If your plants are dying from the bottom up, it does suggest that it might be some sort of drainage or aeration problem. Adding some Gypsum to the bottom layer of the soil might be beneficial.

It's the peas that are doing that, this is one of those self-watering planters with the grow bag in it, which tends to stay pretty wet. I think I have some perlite somewhere that I may mix in.

What color is the grow bag?

[bower]

I was reading about the root rot issues of peas recently. Apparently there is a whole community of things that kill your peas roots, they've stopped trying to diagnose one or the other. In the farming context, rotations of about 4 years are recommended to get rid of the pea pathogens. So, in the container context, a complete change of soil with cleanup/disinfection of the container would be advised. These pathogens are soil borne, and they persist for years even if you grow other things.
I also agree that moisture is a likely contributor to the problem, just because it is so typical of containers that drainage issues may arise. So adding perlite to your new mix is a good idea, and maybe also consider putting in more drainage holes. IDK if the self watering, 'staying wet' planter is the best choice for peas. Not that they like it hot and dry either, but.. the presence of rots agrees with your description.
I do think that all the inoculants are expensive enough, you'd be better off changing the soil rather than waste them trying to get rid of the bad guys that are resident in the soil. But I did see some pics of a demo field where Actinovate was tried, and seemed to improve plant growth significantly compared to control. This was a study by the manufacturer.
Found a couple of the refs in my notes: confirms that poor drainage, flooding, wet soil, waterlogging are the conditions that favor this 'pathogen complex'.
https://albertapulse.com/pea-diseases/f ... -diseases/
https://germains.com/us/organic-seed-tr ... -for-peas/

[MissS]

@Setec Astronomy I use the brown package which is MycoGrow Soluble.

[Setec Astronomy]

I do think that all the inoculants are expensive enough, you'd be better off changing the soil rather than waste them trying to get rid of the bad guys that are resident in the soil.

Well, I don't know what I'd do with the soil, other than find some random holes in my lawn. What's in there is the potting mix that came with the planter, I had this problem from the get-go so for all I know the "bad guys" came in the mix, and new stuff will have the same problem, even though these days I use a different mix.

I found some 12% H2O2 on Amazon that I may give a go to sterilize things, then go with the inoculants/biofungals again.

[Setec Astronomy]

If you decide to use a fungicide such as Howler, then skip using any kind of mycos. MycoGrow and similar products are adding the beneficial fungi and bacterial to your growing medium. If you use a fungicide, that will kill them and defeat the purpose.

Over in this thread post18397.html?hilit=mycogrow#p18397 mixing MycoGrow, Biota Max, and Actinovate was mentioned...wouldn't the Actinovate also kill the MycoGrow fungi? At the MycoGrow website they mention chemical fungicides not being good, I've emailed them to ask about biofungals.

I do know that amideutch has used the two products together as a root dip for some years now. Both of these product form a symbiotic relationship with the roots. It was a good idea to ask them your question because I don't know the answer other than that people do mix them together.

Ok, these are the answers I got, I asked an online seller of a lot of this stuff, the MycoGrow people, Actinovate (Valent) and Howler (AgBiome). I decided I would never hear back from Bayer so I didn't ask about the Serenade.

Online Seller: should be "relatively compatible", however there could be some competition among the bacteria and fungi and they recommended waiting a week

MycoGrow was more non-commital, saying it would depend, that I should check with the mfrs., but that any anti-fungal, in most cases, should be avoided around the application of MycoGrow

Actinovate: "ACTINOVATE is safe to use with mycorrhizal products and other beneficial organisms like Bacillus or Trichoderma. A transplant dip is a good way to go for a combination like that, just be sure your agitation is good to keep all the spores in suspension."

Howler: The person there was very helpful with links on where to buy small and large quantities, and said they had spoken to the head of the Technical Services team and their studies have confirmed that there are, " No negative interaction with soil beneficial organisms" with Howler fungicide.

So....bottom line is I think I'm going to try to fizz my pea soil with some strong H2O2 when it warms up a bit in February, wait a week or so and dose it with some myco/antifungal soup, maybe a couple of times before planting, then do a transplant dip, and try to do a periodic root drench with some soup combination. Of course...I am seldom able to realize my plans of regularly spraying, fertilizing, etc...so we'll see what happens. I'll try and update this thread later in the season, if I remember, if I don't drop off the face of the earth like I did last year, etc........

[MissS]

Well with all of the discussion of Mycos and bacteria, I think that the most important one has been ignored. Legumes really do need Rhizobia bacteria to grow well. So please do check to see if any of these products contain them. It is well known that if a field has not had a crop of legumes grown in it for several years that you should purchase a legumes inoculant to use at plant out. Most garden centers will have this buy their seed racks.
https://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/A130/welcome.html

[Setec Astronomy]

Thanks MissS, I always use one of those bean booster inoculants that has Rhizobacteria in it when I plant peas, except when I forget

[bower]

I do think that all the inoculants are expensive enough, you'd be better off changing the soil rather than waste them trying to get rid of the bad guys that are resident in the soil.

Well, I don't know what I'd do with the soil, other than find some random holes in my lawn. What's in there is the potting mix that came with the planter, I had this problem from the get-go so for all I know the "bad guys" came in the mix, and new stuff will have the same problem, even though these days I use a different mix.

I found some 12% H2O2 on Amazon that I may give a go to sterilize things, then go with the inoculants/biofungals again.

Things to do with bad container mix that's been waterlogged and may contain damping off type pathogens:
1) incorporate in a raised bed, where it will air out and dry out, and wait several years before planting the susceptible crop.
2) dig it into any well drained flower beds/perennials for added organic matter where those pathogens won't be an issue.
3) cycle it as a layer in your compost pile.
4) spread around the base of a hedge or tree, to reduce weeds for (maybe) a season.

Others may disagree? But in my environment there's never enough dirt, so nothing at all can be wasted. I have not had any problem with cycling old container mix outdoors.
Just wanted to make a few suggestions, in case you have to revisit the question in future.