Back Crossing Sungold

[Rockoe10]

Sungold has had probably the most work done with it in an attempted to create an Open Pollinated version.

So many people have worked on it and posted about it, but on all the forums I've read, I haven't seen anyone post about their methods. At least not in much detail.

One thing i haven't read is whether a back cross was ever done (Taking some F-n generation of Sungold and crossing it back with the F1 Sungold) to retrieve any lost traits.

Does anyone know if this has been done? I can't imagine it hasn't, but without more detail on the work done for a given project, I can't be certain.

PS
I'm interested in getting on the Sungold OP train and testing my hand at it. My first thought is to take one of the already OP forms of Sungold, and back crossing it. Shortcut the project.

[bower]

[mention]Rockoe10[/mention] what a great idea. Please do it!
I have read but a few threads here and there about the attempts on Sungold. Never saw any comment about a backcross. But it's the obvious thing to do, since the usual method of simply selecting your best year after year has 'failed' according to most assessments of most attempts.
TBH I doubt that backcrossing has been used, only because the Sungold-to-OP project is an appealing thing to do if you've never made a cross yourself. You just grow it out. Whereas people who do make crosses get addicted to that, and are constantly adding to their own unstable creations, they may be less interested in the backcross potential for an 'OP Sungold' than they are in maybe crossing Sungold with something else....
I like the idea of using an existing OP version for backcross.
Please keep us posted, great project!

[Hilldale]

I don't know anyone that has, but I was wondering about the outcome.

[Rockoe10]

Me too, i think this will be my first experiment next summer. I expect to see some diversity in the f2. Though, there should be some consistency. I'd have to be mindful of my selection for f3, because i could end up losing alleles (the good ones i mean).

[Tormahto]

I've been thinking about it for several years, after tasting my first Ambrosia Gold. I guess I've been to busy eating SunGolds and Ambrosia Golds, rather than making the cross.

[Rockoe10]

I would be so excited to see what can come from a few Back crosses. I truly am amazed that no one has done it, given the numerus attempts to stabilize the Sungold.

I've been thinking that if a good open Pollinated version isn't possible, due to Hybrid Vigor, that creating a good F1 version would be the best best thing. That is, stabilize two versions of the Sungold and cross them, creating a consistent F1 version.

So much work here, but thankfully we already have a few version already stabilized to work with

[Brent Montgomery]

Sounds like something I would do and in the same way. Take a Sungold Select, Big Sungold Select, Sungold II, or one of the others I'd forgotten and cross back to the F1. Should be a somewhat tight, but variable F2 with tighter genes to select from. Then you could select for taste and foliage smell as potentials to carry forward. Great idea for new OP. Any thoughts on SG's parents?

[Rockoe10]

I started some indoors a few weeks back. I'm hoping to make a successful cross to start selecting from this summer.

I'm going with Sun Gold Select as the mother. I don't have any of the other OPs to choose from at this time. And the father will be Sun Gold F1.

I will know the cross was successful if the seeds have some diversity, as the mother is OP.

I practised crossing with my Jalapeno Pepper plant before winter, so i think I've got the technique down

[Doffer]

I think the difficult thing to get a OP Sungold with similar taste is that Sungold have the perfect combination between flavor like sweetness and sour.

Maybe u can get some lost genes back by a BC. But why did these genes get lost: did the breeder not use enough F2 plants, can the genes not be combine homozygous for good taste, are some important genes located at the same chromosome, etc.?

So maybe u can combine some flavors if u combine these children of Sungold:
Sungold Select
Sungold Select II
Big Sungold Select.
And there are more.
(sunsugar)

[Rockoe10]

I got ahold of Ambrosia Gold, which I've heard is a line of Sungold OP. Along with Sungold Select and Sungold Select II now on my treasure chest of seed, i could do just that and combine the children's genes.

[Doffer]

It seems some Sungold children get exerted stigmas. Better to remove these plants because they automatic cross pollinate.

https://permies.com/i/990071/sungold-f3-ex.jpg

[Rockoe10]

I've been growing Sungold Select all winter inside. They have these exerted stigmas. I'm not to worried about cross pollination, since I'll be removing the anthers anyway, but what about self pollination? Do they tend to accept pollen earlier i mean?

[Doffer]

Does sungold F1 also have exerted stigmas?

[Rockoe10]

Yes, both my Sungold F1 and Sungold Select have the exerted stigma.

Im also growing Nectar from Parkseed and they have a minor excerted stigma. It would seem many of these vigorous and resistant hybrids do.

[Doffer]

Not all the F2 Sungold have exerted stigma. So its possible to go on with Sungolds that have no exerted stigma.

[Rockoe10]

I suppose you could. For my selections I'll be selecting specifically for taste however. Stigma length, DTM, growth patterns etc are sitting this one out.

[Doffer]

It all depends on the numbers and odds. How many Sungolf F1 hybrids do you want to plant for the F2 generation this year?

[Doffer]

How is it going withe the SunGold OP corssing?

Here i made a cross between
Sungold F1 x Sungreen F1
Sungold F1 x Sungreen 4029
Sungreen F1 x Sungreen 4029