Bower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:25 am Promix is peat based.
I would be reusing container mix from the greenhouse to pot up, with 1/3 fresh compost, if not concerned that aphids may hatch out of it indoors.

Is there a difference between "peat" and "sphagnum peat moss"?

Last year I had aphids on my seedlings indoors...I wasn't sure if they came from some seedlings I bought that I put under the lights with mine, or if they were hanging around from the summer before when I had brought in some cuttings to try and root them, or if they were in the potting mix. Can you get aphids from commercial potting/seedling mix?

Tormato wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:53 am

Toomanymatoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:58 pm I've tried many different seed starting mixes. Some were really bad. I would go with Jiffy if I was buying a seed starting mix. Reasonable price and the quality has always been better than the others for me.

However, I am not really sure that it's necessary to use a seedling mix. I have used Promix Potting soil as well, since it was the best deal I could get. Sure, you pick out some sticks and bark chips here and there, but never had any issues with it. The Promix HP and BX are probably slightly better choices since they do not contain fertilizer. However, for me they were always more expensive.

This year I bought SunGro Sunshine Mix #4 since it was on clearance. It is basically the same as Promix HP. Unfortunately it was stored outside, so I have to be sure to thoroughly treat it with boiling water. Since I am lazy, I also happened to pick up a bag of Jiffy Young Plant Mix (not sure if that is a different product or not?) that I walked past at Home Depot to start with.

Is Promix potting soil, soilless?

Yes. It is considered soilless. I should note, it depends on your definition of soilless as well. I have seen both where soilless simply means no inorganic material like clay or sand, but other definitions also exclude compost.

Ingredients:
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (60-75%)
Peat humus [not in small bags]
Compost [not in small bags]
Perlite
Gypsum
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Organic fertilizer
Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology
Coir / coconut fibre [only in the small bags]

I use ProMix BX like many here, although for smaller cells and/or smaller seeds, I prefer a germination mix with finer particles. Specifically, I like Berger Germination mix that I get through A.M. Leonard. They occasionally have free shipping and a grab a bag then. A 3cf bag lasts a long time since I'm not using it fill up big pots, etc. It is basically just like a fine particle ProMix.
https://www.amleo.com/berger-germinatio ... u-ft/p/BM2

Sometimes I add some diatomaceous earth to increase drainage, while also having some retained moisture in the DE. I believe DE can also help build the fine root structure and is a source of silica that will strengthen stems, etc. I use the cheap oil spill clean-up products from the auto supply stores that are actually 100%DE and are much cheaper than if you buy it as a gardening product. The particle sizes vary so I like to get the smaller particles to add to my seed starting mix and the largest size particles for container mixes.

I have used Fox Farms Happy Frog for years. I tried ProMix, I tried Jiffy, I tried Black Gold... I always went back to Happy Frog so now that's it - I stick with it.

I don't have issues with germination, damping off, I don't do anything extra with my seeds. I love that it smells GREAT and stays smelling great. The year I tried Black Gold, it didn't smell good and then seemed to sour as the days went on.

When I pot up into the solo cups I have used for years, I add a bit of Ocean Forest into the cup, start down low and as the seedling settles in, I continue to top up with Ocean Forest until the cup is filled.

Find something that work for you and stick to it!

Setec Astronomy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:42 am

Bower wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:25 am Promix is peat based.
I would be reusing container mix from the greenhouse to pot up, with 1/3 fresh compost, if not concerned that aphids may hatch out of it indoors.

Is there a difference between "peat" and "sphagnum peat moss"?

Last year I had aphids on my seedlings indoors...I wasn't sure if they came from some seedlings I bought that I put under the lights with mine, or if they were hanging around from the summer before when I had brought in some cuttings to try and root them, or if they were in the potting mix. Can you get aphids from commercial potting/seedling mix?

Peat is a general term for decayed vegetation. Sphagnum peat moss is peat specifically from sphagnum moss. There is also Reed-sedge and Hypnum Peat moss.

Do you's folks transplant your seedlings into something different than the starter mix at some point in time?

I have Space Hybrid Spinach (1st image) and Lettuce Leaf (left) and Emerald Towers Basil (2nd image) in 4 x 4 pots under the lights

This is a test case whose intent is for winter consumption and not transplanting outdoors.

Would you's suggest using a different mix and transplanting them into larger pots for better yield?

The Gotch

Cornelius_Gotchberg wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:42 am
Do you's folks transplant your seedlings into something different than the starter mix at some point in time?

Not sure about the experts, but I do. I start mine in tiny, but tall, pots; a few seeds to a pot. Those are all in the Fox Farms Happy Frog.

I pot each seedling up to a small red solo cup (might be 8 oz, I don't know) but I don't fill it up. I add in some Fox Farms Ocean Forest when I do this, then as they grow, I top each cup up with Ocean Forest. On it's own, I think it's a bit too 'hot' for baby plants. I pot Tomatoes up one more time and that's the whole shebang from the red solo cup into a tall 4" pot with Ocean Forest making up the remainder of the pot. Depending on growth, weather, I may or may not pot up other plants.

CrazyAboutOrchids wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:44 amNot sure about the experts, but I do. I start mine in tiny, but tall, pots; a few seeds to a pot. Those are all in the Fox Farms Happy Frog.

I notice Fox Farms also has a specific seed starting mix, called Light Warrior.

@Cornelius_Gotchberg I have some winter greens started, and I'll be potting them up into the same mix, but I may use some mix from the greenhouse as well. I'm being careful not to get any aphids packed up with stuff I'm getting ready for my Mom's house. If mine get aphids I don't care too much, I can always chuck em back in the greenhouse and get nasty with water or soap or.. DE? But in general, I would use the same thing to start seeds as I do to pot up. It has to hold moisture well enough in the indoor environment, either way.

@Setec Astronomy I wouldn't expect to get aphids from a potting mix. Aphids are hanging around on plant material more than in soil, afaik. I don't know enough about the circumstance where they lay eggs to overwinter, but pretty sure it would be on a plant not in a (supposedly sterilized) mix of soil. I doubt very much that the soil mix of commerce is being mixed and bagged any place where there would be aphids to lay eggs if they were inclined to do so.

It was kind of a mystery to me where the aphids came from, I presumed that they came from the seedlings I had bought, but then later I remembered the previous year when we had that tropical storm here and I had some damaged plants, I had started bringing in some tomato suckers to try and root them as a backup, and later I noticed they were all covered with aphids, so I dumped them...they were in the vicinity, but some distance away from where I had the seedlings last year. So I dunno.

Whenever I buy pepper seedlings from one particular greenhouse, they have aphids. I have never gotten them from my seed starting mix.

I start my seeds in the seed starting mix. I have used Jiffy in the past but this year I bought an organic one from a company called Coast of Maine. I don't know anything about it but it was sold in my local seed store and I have total faith in what they sell. I buy almost all of my seeds and supplies from them.

I start my seeds in small cell packs with the seed starting mix and then the plants are big enough to reach the upper adjustment of my lights, they get transplanted into potting soil in 4" square black, plastic pots. They get half strength liquid fertilizer weekly until they are transplanted.

I have never had problems with damping off but I attribute this to the fact that they are grown in my sunroom which is 70 - 75° at all times. I am not a believer in bottom watering either. I water from the top and have never had a problem. It is my opinion that more problems come from starting seeds in a cooler environment. Molds love cool, damp conditions.

Toomanymatoes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:59 am This year I bought SunGro Sunshine Mix #4 since it was on clearance. It is basically the same as Promix HP.
Ingredients:
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (60-75%)
Peat humus [not in small bags]
Compost [not in small bags]
Perlite
Gypsum
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Organic fertilizer
Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology
Coir / coconut fibre [only in the small bags]

Sungro. That's what I have although mine is the Sungro Professional Growing Mix, a slightly different composition with the inclusion of some softwood bark fines.
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (50-60%)
Softwood bark
Perlite
Gypsum
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Wetting agent

Because of the bark fines here and there it's a bit more textured than the old mix but it works very well for me. I think I paid about $18-something for a 2.8 cu ft bag.

Setec Astronomy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:49 am

CrazyAboutOrchids wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:44 amNot sure about the experts, but I do. I start mine in tiny, but tall, pots; a few seeds to a pot. Those are all in the Fox Farms Happy Frog.

I notice Fox Farms also has a specific seed starting mix, called Light Warrior.

Yes, I have used that in the past, then would go to the Happy Frog, than the Ocean Warrior. I don't know when, but a while back I just went to all Happy Frog to start - maybe I couldn't get LW? I don't remember, but it worked so I just stuck with it. I like the Fox Farms stuff though, smells great, feels great, seeds and plants like it.

GoDawgs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:38 pm

Toomanymatoes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:59 am This year I bought SunGro Sunshine Mix #4 since it was on clearance. It is basically the same as Promix HP.
Ingredients:
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (60-75%)
Peat humus [not in small bags]
Compost [not in small bags]
Perlite
Gypsum
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Organic fertilizer
Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology
Coir / coconut fibre [only in the small bags]

Sungro. That's what I have although mine is the Sungro Professional Growing Mix, a slightly different composition with the inclusion of some softwood bark fines.
Canadian sphagnum peat moss (50-60%)
Softwood bark
Perlite
Gypsum
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Wetting agent

Because of the bark fines here and there it's a bit more textured than the old mix but it works very well for me. I think I paid about $18-something for a 2.8 cu ft bag.

The ingredients I listed were for Promix Vegetable & Garden Potting Soil.

The Sunshine Mix #4 is: Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, Perlite, Dolomite Lime, Wetting Agent, Mycorrihizae

Basically the same as ProMix HP.

Danny wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:19 pm What do you use to start your seeds in? There are a lot of mixes and it is hard to choose. Does everyone use the same starter for all seeds or a different one for different seeds?

My preferred mixes are Fox Farm or Fertilome (can't wrangle the large Pro Mix bale upstairs into my house) I'm once again using Miracle Grow seed starting mix (repeat from last year's availability limitations due to covid) out of convenience purchasing at Lowes nearby. For some reason , Wal Mart has no Jiffy Mix, only the all in one pellet kits.

After a few weeks, the MG seed starting mix starts to compact. No choice but to be transplanting, keeping the original plug intact. I use a variety of containers ; 6 packs, flats (to pick out the seedlings from) and 4 inch pots from the get go. I don't add soil to the top, always potting up re-plant. I also do a lot of seed soaking. Having really good germination of old herb seeds this year.

- Lisa

greenthumbomaha wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:14 pm My preferred mixes are Fox Farm or Fertilome (can't wrangle the large Pro Mix bale upstairs into my house) I'm once again using Miracle Grow seed starting mix (repeat from last year's availability limitations due to covid) out of convenience purchasing at Lowes nearby. For some reason , Wal Mart has no Jiffy Mix, only the all in one pellet kits.
- Lisa

I was very happy to find Jiffy seed starting mix in the 12-qt bag for $4.97 at Walmart today; it looked like they had just recently set up the display. So now I'm all set for a seed starting mix battle of the bands: Jiffy, Espoma, Promix, Black Gold, and Dr. Earth. I'll also try starting some seeds in Black Gold potting mix, Miracle Gro potting mix, and some combinations.

I tried doing this last year but didn't label things well and forgot what I used in which containers, so my research project was a bust. I learned that some of the products definitely worked better than others, and at least one of them was truly terrible, but I had no idea which ones were good and which were bad. Hopefully my attention span will be a little longer this year.

Few years ago after reading in Tomatoville about diatomaceous earth granules used for seed starting I started experimenting with different mediums available here. I found then Danish moler clay, which is one type of diatomite. I am starting my seeds in the moler and let them grow at least one set of true leaves before transplanting to mix of coir and perlite or peat and perlite. Separating the seedlings from moler for transplanting is so easy to do without breaking the roots even if the seeds have been sown densely that I like using it. Also fungus gnats larvae is not causing problems in the moler.

Sari

I had the dreaded fungus gnats on my house peppers for a couple of years, until finally I watered the seedlings with a mosquito dunk (BT-i) before any gnats had appeared.... I haven't seen one since.

One time I noticed fungus gnats flying around bags of soils in a store so I started putting my seed starting mix outside in below freezing temperatures for a couple of days.

This has solved that problem for me but when I did have some fungus gnats I also used a piece of mosquito dunk in my watering can with excellent results.

http://www.sungro.com/professional-prod ... ine-mix-1/

From seeds to final repot this is hard to beat. Might be hard to find in smaller quantities. I get a couple bales from a retail greenhouse in the area when I get in a pinch.
The mix I'm using this year is 1 part Sun Grow peat to 1 part Pro Mix HP to 1/4 part big chunk perlite. The local Ace True Value had a pallet of somewhat damaged Pro Mix that I got for $20 a bale.
Never found it necessary for different mixes for starting to pot up. A good peat based mix that drains well does it all.