The Taste of Tomatoes

[Shule]

I am tomato taste impaired in that I cannot taste all of the flavors in tomatoes. My mother & I tasted the same Big Beef tomato & I said, "So bland!" and she said, "Such great taste!" My sister's taste buds only go for Pass/Fail: it's either a good tasting tomato or not. And DH never met a tomato he didn't like. I'm thinking of growing Elbonian Mudball for him.
Nan

I don't know that anyone can taste all the flavors in tomatoes, considering the views I've read/heard, and the tomatoes I've tasted. They have very complex flavors. If some of your taste buds are strong, others might be overpowered (not because they're weaker than standard, per se). For example, I grew a remarkable tiny tomato once. It tasted super sweet to me (like one of the sweetest tomatoes I had ever eaten; and a little tart). I gave a slice of the same fruit to a couple relatives, who acclaimed it was quite sour; one of them said it was sour in a good way, while the other didn't comment further. Neither of them detected sweetness. I was pretty disappointed that they couldn't taste the sweetness (because it was extremely good). Their sour taste buds were probably just too strong to notice it. Or maybe some sour things taste sweet to me. Or maybe I have extra tastebuds for sweet flavors. Whatever the case, I wouldn't have described it as sour, let alone very sour! So, we were both tasting things that the other didn't taste, and we were both missing things that the other did taste.

A perfectly balanced tongue would probably still miss things that some people taste, and of course find lots of things that others don't.

[TheDante]

When you decide om which of your 2,000 you are going to grow next year, I really don't think most should be picked by variety name. Selecting tomatoes in many different colors, shapes, sizes, types, etc.. will hopefully give you the widest assortment of flavors to try. The key is how they taste in your garden to you. And, your weather can have a huge effect on the taste, from year to year.

Have you decided on how many plants you are going to grow next year? In my experience, growing 100 plants is not 10 times as hard as growing 10. It's much harder than 10 times, because of fatigue.

I do have a tentative list for which I have also scowered through the posts in TV and that was also how I got to come to know of several much talked about varieties. As well as from books from Craig LeHouillier and the late Carolyn Male and Amy Goldman. And my problem (my fault! haha!) is that I am feeling a tad overwhelmed. Too many to choose from and wanting to grow EVERYTHING!

I cannot figure out how many plants I want to grow because I am also wondering how many plants I should grow of each variety. I remembered in my first year, I ended up with over 500 tomato plants (most were Sungold F1, which I now give them away yearly to friends and acquaintances as they all love it! ha!). It was crazy. I was afraid that not all seeds would germinate and I tend to err on the side of caution. At the same time, what if some of the seeds I have do not grow out to be the actual variety. Hence, a conundrum I am in. And why my other thread I was asking how many seeds everyone grew for each variety.

A friend I recently got to know grows about 250 tomato plants, that alone is mind boggling! I suspect I lack confidence because I am in the presence of so many experienced tomato growers while I have only grown a rather limited selection. I feel like a mouse. I concentrated on other vegetables in the past years and now my current obsession is tomatoes!

Apologies for being this long-winded. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone´s stories and experiences here as well as TV (even though I had no voice).

The reason too for my eagerness is because it has been wonderful being able to communicate with everyone here as I am not too confident communicating in the German tomato forum.

I gotta say that it is strange looking at so many familiar names in this forum whilst I was behind a bubble in TV!

I hope everyone can bear with me if I come across a wee bit eager!

Btw, please let me know if this is considered ranting… I am so terrified of stepping on toes or breaking some kinda forum etiquette rules. And also if I had hijacked the actual thread.

[TheDante]

A perfectly balanced tongue would probably still miss things that some people taste, and of course find lots of things that others don't.

I am gonna sound a wee bit gross - please be warned and do forgive me in advance… perhaps some people have rather ´thick layered´ tongues if anyone gets my drift.

I know it is kinda ewwwwwwwwwwwwww. But it is the truth.

And maybe then certain tastes are lost on peeps. Who knows.

[Shule]

From things I've read and a few things I've grown, I would recommend trying the following black tomatoes, for a good introduction to black tomatoes:

* Cherokee Purple
* Indian Stripe Potato Leaf (similar to Cherokee Purple, and often preferred to the RL version)
* Black Cherry (maybe try Austin's Black Cherry)
* Black Krim
* Paul Robeson (mine was very flavorful and good; mine was juicy, with almost no hang-time)
* Japanese Black Trifele
* JD's Special C-tex
* Carbon
* Ron's Carbon Copy (very sweet to me, but some others disagree)
* Chocolate Sprinkles F1
* Bear Creek
* Aunt Ginny's Purple
* Black from Tula (not my personal preference, so far, but loads of people like it, and I overwatered mine)
* Black Prince (ditto, although I had a crop failure when I tried it)
* Ananas Noire (ditto)
* Amazon Chocolate (ditto, but isn't as popular as it used to be)
* Cherokee Chocolate
* Girl Girl's Weird Thing (close enough to black)
* True Black Brandywine
* Black Sea Man (maybe the only determinate on this list!)
* Brad's Black Heart
* Chocolate Pear
* Black Plum

There are some black dwarfs that may be great, too.

[Tormahto]

Well-balanced means a couple of things, I guess. Mostly, you can taste" both tart & sweet". It doesn't mean "neither tart nor sweet." It doesn't hit you as a primarily sweet or primarily tart tomato.

Balanced (relatively equal in sweetness and tartness), to me and my taste buds, can mean both. Stump of the World is balanced where I taste both the sweet and tart, for a very complex taste. Seek-No-Further Love Apple is balanced where I taste neither sweet nor tart, for a much less complex taste. And, sweetness and tartness are only 2 components of the overall flavor. I think Carolyn once said there might be about 200 flavor compounds found in tomatoes.

Blandness is simply a lack of flavor. The 2 main factors, I believe, are the genetic potential of the variety and water. Too much rain water over a period of several days seems to contribute to blandness. That same amount of water in only one day, and being dry for the other days, does not affect flavor in my garden.

The bi-color varieties seem to come out the worst from long rainy spells, the tomatoes being bland and mushy. That's why I only trial one or two bi-colors a year out of 100+ plants. The only variety I've found where virtually nothing effects its flavor is SunGold.

[Tormahto]

@wildcat62

I don't know if the acidic quality in it is true-to-type or if it'll be acidic in your garden, but the tart PL Brandy Boy cross I had is one I'd recommend, if you want F3 seeds (free with an SASE; I'm out of stamps).

Silvery Fir Tree and Nineveh are well-known for being acidic (although Nineveh isn't terribly well-known on forums, in my experience). I've grown Silvery Fir Tree. It was acidic, and fairly early, but it wasn't my favorite for productiton or taste (in dry conditions). Taste wasn't bad, though—just not fancy. I plan to grow Nineveh next year. I'll probably try Silvery Fir Tree again another year.

I might recommend Missouri Pink Love Apple, if my fruit in 2016 was an indicator. My Mexican Yellow x Chapman F2 was fairly acidic, this year. At least, by the flavor, color and larger fruit size, I think Chapman was the pollinator.

If your soil is low on potassium, your fruits may be more acidic.

What I would love is an acidic, prolific, paste. I'll have to watch for interesting crosses.

There's a purple ribbed tomato that people say is sour, I think. I forgot what it was, though.

You might like Matina, Mountain Princess, New Yorker V, Manitoba, Burpee Gloriana, Thessaloniki, and Cuostralee. Although maybe they're not full on acidic, I'd call them tart.

Some people think Brandy Boy F1 is acidic.

That infamous purple ribbed tomato is Purple Calabash.

[Tormahto]

I am tomato taste impaired in that I cannot taste all of the flavors in tomatoes. My mother & I tasted the same Big Beef tomato & I said, "So bland!" and she said, "Such great taste!" My sister's taste buds only go for Pass/Fail: it's either a good tasting tomato or not. And DH never met a tomato he didn't like. I'm thinking of growing Elbonian Mudball for him.
Nan

My thought is that if your DH likes black tomatoes he'll like Elbonian Mud Ball. Most of the seed out there, where ever they are (last I heard,Tokyo?) is only about F3. So, flavor and tomatoes may be variable. After about a dozen years of discovering the cross, I finally made it to F4 this year. My Elbonian Hip Deep, tastes "cleaner", to me.

If he wants a tomato he wish he never met, Purple Calabash might be it.

[Nan6b]

Karen/theDante, you're not ranting. You're fine. It's good to see your enthusiasm & understand where you're coming from.

[TheDante]

Thanks Nan. That means a lot

[worth1]

I have found the best tasting tomato flavors are first thing in the morning while or after drinking a very strong coffee before eating anything else.

[TheDante]

I have found the best tasting tomato flavors are first thing in the morning while or after drinking a very strong coffee before eating anything else.

No way! Really!

Will try that

I gather the coffee should be neat (no sugar and no milk - like the way I drink mine )

[worth1]

I have found the best tasting tomato flavors are first thing in the morning while or after drinking a very strong coffee before eating anything else.

No way! Really!

Will try that

I gather the coffee should be neat (no sugar and no milk - like the way I drink mine )

Seriously, it works and the flavors in the tomato come out big time.
I drink my coffee super strong 15 grams french roast to about cup of water and I put sugar in it.
It is also the best time of the day to eat chili.
In my opinion you have had all night for the taste buds and so on to get over all the attacks it has had during the day.

[TheDante]

Seriously, it works and the flavors in the tomato come out big time.
I drink my coffee super strong 15 grams french roast to about cup of water and I put sugar in it.
It is also the best time of the day to eat chili.
In my opinion you have had all night for the taste buds and so on to get over all the attacks it has had during the day.

haha! I did wonder after I replied maybe you were pulling my leg... knowing your dark humour (a shared trait you have with Tormato which I have observed )

Try drinking your coffee WITHOUT the sugar

Never really had Chili in my life… only chili I know is those spicy red fruit veg , we might be planning a visit to Florida in Spring, might have to try some

[Tormahto]

When you decide om which of your 2,000 you are going to grow next year, I really don't think most should be picked by variety name. Selecting tomatoes in many different colors, shapes, sizes, types, etc.. will hopefully give you the widest assortment of flavors to try. The key is how they taste in your garden to you. And, your weather can have a huge effect on the taste, from year to year.

Have you decided on how many plants you are going to grow next year? In my experience, growing 100 plants is not 10 times as hard as growing 10. It's much harder than 10 times, because of fatigue.

I do have a tentative list for which I have also scowered through the posts in TV and that was also how I got to come to know of several much talked about varieties. As well as from books from Craig LeHouillier and the late Carolyn Male and Amy Goldman. And my problem (my fault! haha!) is that I am feeling a tad overwhelmed. Too many to choose from and wanting to grow EVERYTHING!

I cannot figure out how many plants I want to grow because I am also wondering how many plants I should grow of each variety. I remembered in my first year, I ended up with over 500 tomato plants (most were Sungold F1, which I now give them away yearly to friends and acquaintances as they all love it! ha!). It was crazy. I was afraid that not all seeds would germinate and I tend to err on the side of caution. At the same time, what if some of the seeds I have do not grow out to be the actual variety. Hence, a conundrum I am in. And why my other thread I was asking how many seeds everyone grew for each variety.

A friend I recently got to know grows about 250 tomato plants, that alone is mind boggling! I suspect I lack confidence because I am in the presence of so many experienced tomato growers while I have only grown a rather limited selection. I feel like a mouse. I concentrated on other vegetables in the past years and now my current obsession is tomatoes!

Apologies for being this long-winded. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone´s stories and experiences here as well as TV (even though I had no voice).

The reason too for my eagerness is because it has been wonderful being able to communicate with everyone here as I am not too confident communicating in the German tomato forum.

I gotta say that it is strange looking at so many familiar names in this forum whilst I was behind a bubble in TV!

I hope everyone can bear with me if I come across a wee bit eager!

Btw, please let me know if this is considered ranting… I am so terrified of stepping on toes or breaking some kinda forum etiquette rules. And also if I had hijacked the actual thread.

Year one is going to be your learning year, so relax. Not everything is going to go perfect, so relax. Nowhere near everything can be accomplished the first year, so relax.

Of your 2,000 varieties, I estimate about up to 80 may be wrong varieties. You're relaxed, so I don't need to tell you again.

Your weather is likely going to be the biggest factor whether you...(isn't the English language silly with words like weather and whether)...get flavorful or bland tomatoes.

The biggest thing is that you do not yet know what tomatoes you are going to like or possibly dislike. With good weather, you're going to find out. If you have a spot to waste, I recommend Purple Calabash. I recommend that you do not ever give a Purple Calabash plant to a friend. As for enemies...

Trying to do too much can set you up for too much disappointment. Your biggest plus may be that you can give away extra plants, since you likely will be starting many more than you have room for. THAT'S joining a mighty big club.

[Tormahto]

And, I'll add, go in with CONFIDENCE. The tomato plants don't know you from Craig, or Carolyn, or Amy. Each of them had to start with much less information than you have.

Perhaps you can start slow, by letting us know what your germination and seedling set-up is like.

I'll let you know about one thing I do when starting a variety. When I have fresh seed and I only want one plant, I first select 3 to 4 mid-sized seeds from the pack. The small ones seem to have a lesser chance of germinating, and often have weak seedlings. The largest seed can have large leggy seedlings that can get too tall too quickly, and then collapse. The mid-sized ones usually have stocky mid-sized seedlings. If there are 1 or 2 weaklings, I cut them out quickly. I let the two strongest stockiest ones grow until I'm confident that my "skills"won't kill them.

[TheDante]

Of your 2,000 varieties, I estimate about up to 80 may be wrong varieties......

No way... really? Damn! If that happens, how would I be able to name the tomatoes for future use if they end up really tasty - sweet/tart/acidic/well-balanced - so long as they don´t turn out like EMB ?!

Your weather is likely going to be the biggest factor whether you...(isn't the English language silly with words like weather and whether)...get flavorful or bland tomatoes.

Think weatherwise (nice play on the words..lol), we are relatively safe and haven´t been terribly wet for the past few years, in fact our region is fairly hot during the summer months =)

The biggest thing is that you do not yet know what tomatoes you are going to like or possibly dislike. With good weather, you're going to find out. If you have a spot to waste, I recommend Purple Calabash. I recommend that you do not ever give a Purple Calabash plant to a friend. As for enemies...

haha! Think am gonna steer clear of Purple Calabash too Enemies are safe, we stay clear off them too...

Trying to do too much can set you up for too much disappointment. Your biggest plus may be that you can give away extra plants, since you likely will be starting many more than you have room for. THAT'S joining a mighty big club.

Indeed, there is always that, wondering what that crazy cat and plant lady is up to again

Aaaaaaaand Tormato, you are killing me with your wicked humour.. please don´t ever change Thanks for always making my day too ^-^

[TheDante]

And, I'll add, go in with CONFIDENCE. The tomato plants don't know you from Craig, or Carolyn, or Amy. Each of them had to start with much less information than you have.

Perhaps you can start slow, by letting us know what your germination and seedling set-up is like.

I'll let you know about one thing I do when starting a variety. When I have fresh seed and I only want one plant, I first select 3 to 4 mid-sized seeds from the pack. The small ones seem to have a lesser chance of germinating, and often have weak seedlings. The largest seed can have large leggy seedlings that can get too tall too quickly, and then collapse. The mid-sized ones usually have stocky mid-sized seedlings. If there are 1 or 2 weaklings, I cut them out quickly. I let the two strongest stockiest ones grow until I'm confident that my "skills"won't kill them.

Thanks again Tormato, for the words of encouragement and advice... slow is never my strength, ask my poor hubby... when she is on to something... watch out!

Growing 1 plant can be rather risky too, unless I am hung up on a particular variety and is dying to savour it´s fruit... I remembered I grew 2 Isis Candy plants this year and 1 grew halfway and developed some sick looking leaves on the main stem. That was the only sick plant I had out of the about 60 tomato plants I grew this year.

I think I might have to play it safe and grow at least 2 of each variety.

Ananas Noire was really really nice - was not overly sweet like Sungold F1

Amish paste was not elongated as described and more oblate and taste was meh, unsure if some are actually supposed to be oblate. I grew seeds from 3 different sources. Asked a friend and he too told me he was sorely disappointed by it.

Tormato, I best write more of my experience in my MUST GROW thread, as I am afraid I might run the risk of hijacking this thread. Thanks again for your feedback and advice, I am grateful. to be continued over at

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=187

[Tormahto]

From things I've read and a few things I've grown, I would recommend trying the following black tomatoes, for a good introduction to black tomatoes:

* Cherokee Purple
* Indian Stripe Potato Leaf (similar to Cherokee Purple, and often preferred to the RL version)
* Black Cherry (maybe try Austin's Black Cherry)
* Black Krim
* Paul Robeson (mine was very flavorful and good; mine was juicy, with almost no hang-time)
* Japanese Black Trifele
* JD's Special C-tex
* Carbon
* Ron's Carbon Copy (very sweet to me, but some others disagree)
* Chocolate Sprinkles F1
* Bear Creek
* Aunt Ginny's Purple
* Black from Tula (not my personal preference, so far, but loads of people like it, and I overwatered mine)
* Black Prince (ditto, although I had a crop failure when I tried it)
* Ananas Noire (ditto)
* Amazon Chocolate (ditto, but isn't as popular as it used to be)
* Cherokee Chocolate
* Girl Girl's Weird Thing (close enough to black)
* True Black Brandywine
* Black Sea Man (maybe the only determinate on this list!)
* Brad's Black Heart
* Chocolate Pear
* Black Plum

There are some black dwarfs that may be great, too.

Aunt Ginny's Purple is a pink tomato, my favorite tomato of the 1,500+ I've trialed.

True Black Brandywine should not be confused with Black Brandywine. The later was once described at T'ville as tasting like a sweaty horse. Be still my heart.

[Tormahto]

I like an acidic tomato. Open to any suggestions.

Would that like be acidic, or tart?

[Tormahto]

I have found the best tasting tomato flavors are first thing in the morning while or after drinking a very strong coffee before eating anything else.

No way! Really!

Will try that

I gather the coffee should be neat (no sugar and no milk - like the way I drink mine )

Seriously, it works and the flavors in the tomato come out big time.
I drink my coffee super strong 15 grams french roast to about cup of water and I put sugar in it.
It is also the best time of the day to eat chili.
In my opinion you have had all night for the taste buds and so on to get over all the attacks it has had during the day.

Is that first thing in the morning straight from the garden? I'll agree there, because those tomatoes will have cooled down from the prior days heat.