Logan's Urban Desert Garden

[bower]

WRT fruit set in hot conditions, plant architecture may be as important as any kind of outright tolerance of higher temperatures (which seems to be limited). The plants that do best in the heat tend to be very vigorous with lots of leaf for shading and tweaking the micro-environmental conditions around their blooms. I guess you could call them 'heat mitigators'.
Parthenocarpy is another thread that can work for the heat as well as cold.
So there are multiple traits that help tomatoes cope with heat, which you might stack in your breeding.

[JayneR13]

My point was pretty simple actually. Native plants have co-evolved with the rest of the ecology to do well in a given area. In your case, tomatoes that have evolved well to the desert ecology will be more heat-tolerant and may well set fruit above the temperature where my tomatoes set fruit, due to the pollen being fertile in your hotter temperatures but not in mine. Here, tomatoes will set fruit in a temperature range of about 85F-95 or so. Much above that and the pollen is sterile. I would think that in your area, native tomatoes would be better adapted to the hot and dry ecology and would therefore set fruit at higher temperatures. This is but one example of co-evolution.

[Wildcat82]

WRT fruit set in hot conditions, plant architecture may be as important as any kind of outright tolerance of higher temperatures (which seems to be limited). The plants that do best in the heat tend to be very vigorous with lots of leaf for shading and tweaking the micro-environmental conditions around their blooms. I guess you could call them 'heat mitigators'.
Parthenocarpy is another thread that can work for the heat as well as cold.
So there are multiple traits that help tomatoes cope with heat, which you might stack in your breeding.

I'm testing out another possibility this spring. My hypothesis is that the woolly type varieties might be well adapted to the heat. Many of these varieties are so woolly, they actually look frosted in the sunlight, almost as if they have been sprayed with kaolin clay. It may be possible the white wool on leaves, stems and flowers deflect enough sunlight so the plants/pollen doesn't overheat.

Fingers crossed.

[GoDawgs]

I'm testing out another possibility this spring. My hypothesis is that the woolly type varieties might be well adapted to the heat. Many of these varieties are so woolly, they actually look frosted in the sunlight, almost as if they have been sprayed with kaolin clay. It may be possible the white wool on leaves, stems and flowers deflect enough sunlight so the plants/pollen doesn't overheat.

Fingers crossed.

Interesting observation and theory. I'll be looking forward to seeing how it turns out! By the way, lots of kaolin around these parts so I know exactly that they look like

[Wildcat82]

Interesting observation and theory. I'll be looking forward to seeing how it turns out! By the way, lots of kaolin around these parts so I know exactly that they look like

I'm going to try kaolin clay on my citrus and a few figs to see if ut helps with heat/mites. I've never used kaolin clay before so I'll probably be hitting you up for advice this summer @GoDawgs.

[GoDawgs]

Interesting observation and theory. I'll be looking forward to seeing how it turns out! By the way, lots of kaolin around these parts so I know exactly that they look like

I'm going to try kaolin clay on my citrus and a few figs to see if ut helps with heat/mites. I've never used kaolin clay before so I'll probably be hitting you up for advice this summer @GoDawgs.

I don't use it on my plants but I think @pepperhead212 uses a spray that has kaolin in it. What I meant was that there are a lot of kaolin mines around here. There used to be white clay all over the roads where trucks of clay come in and out of the mine. Then the police started enforcing mandatory covers over the loads and that helped a lot. Some of the finest clay for making porcelain is mined in this area and shipped to Japan.

[pepperhead212]

I use kaolin clay/Surround, mixed with potassium bicarbonate, on many of my plants - larger tomatoes, squash, cukes, eggplants, and some larger peppers. Sometimes okra, though it's a pain to wash off, like with smaller tomatoes and peppers, so I try to spray it when I don't see any on the plants, unless just starting. And with cherry tomatoes, as soon as they start fruiting, I stop the kaolin, and switch to a solution of H2O2, as a preventative fungicide; same thing with beans, which the kaolin sticks to. Good thing about the kaolin and potassium bicarbonate is that it can sit in the sprayer for a week or more, as it doesn't degrade, and algae doesn't grow in it, so when I'm finished, for the day, it sits in the shed until the next time I use it. In the early days of fast growth, I might spray the new growth every 3 days or so. It takes some heavy rains to wash off the kaolin.

[Wildcat82]

I use kaolin clay/Surround, mixed with potassium bicarbonate, on many of my plants - larger tomatoes, squash, cukes, eggplants, and some larger peppers. Sometimes okra, though it's a pain to wash off, like with smaller tomatoes and peppers, so I try to spray it when I don't see any on the plants, unless just starting. And with cherry tomatoes, as soon as they start fruiting, I stop the kaolin, and switch to a solution of H2O2, as a preventative fungicide; same thing with beans, which the kaolin sticks to. Good thing about the kaolin and potassium bicarbonate is that it can sit in the sprayer for a week or more, as it doesn't degrade, and algae doesn't grow in it, so when I'm finished, for the day, it sits in the shed until the next time I use it. In the early days of fast growth, I might spray the new growth every 3 days or so. It takes some heavy rains to wash off the kaolin.

I haven't seen kaolin clay for sale in any nursery here so I don't think anyone here uses it. But when it's 100 degrees with zero clouds overhead, and mites are destroying everything all summer, I'm thinking that slathering on a heavy coating on things like okra, figs, eggplant, citrus, and perhaps peppers might provide a sun and mite barrier. However, I'm not sure if the constant miticide spraying I have to do will wash off or disrupt the clay barrier on the plants. I am doubtful kaolin clay by itself will effectively stop mites.

There's only one way to find out if the combo of kaolin/miticides will be effective - this will be another of my experiments this summer.

[GoDawgs]

I am doubtful kaolin clay by itself will effectively stop mites.

There's only one way to find out if the combo of kaolin/miticides will be effective - this will be another of my experiments this summer.

Two summers ago I was trying stuff to battle squash vine borers and wondered if a thick coat of kaolin on the main yellow squash stem would help. A friend's father is a boss at one of the kaolin mines and she got him to get me a sample bag of pure refined kaolin powder. I made a thick slurry and painted it on the main stem. That was a pain in the patoot but it got done and it dried well. A few days later we had a good rain and it washed most of the kaolin off. So much for that. Back to the drawing board.

There's probably something mixed in with that Surround stuff that keeps it from washing away but I can tell ya plain kaolin doesn't very long on plants.

[leftylogan]

Kaolin clay is an absolute foreign substance to this westerner, TIL. I''ll have to keep it in mind if any issues pop up. It would theoretically stay stuck to everything in this dry climate unless we have a crazy monsoon season (yeah right).

Variety list updated again - mostly the flowers. I like big flowers so the goal is to grow a sunflower or hollyhock taller than my house. 21 tomato varieties and most have multiple plants... I'm going to need a dehydrator or some new kitchen gadgets to learn to can. Or just give it all away.

Out of town this weekend so no more updates this week. Lights and heat mats will be on a timer for the two trays of plants and the seed starter tray. We're supposed to get rain but I'll leave a good 15 plants outside while I'm gone and see what happens because it'll be back to the high 70's and sunny before the weekend is over.

[MissS]

Kaolin clay is an absolute foreign substance to this westerner, TIL. I''ll have to keep it in mind if any issues pop up. It would theoretically stay stuck to everything in this dry climate unless we have a crazy monsoon season (yeah right).

Variety list updated again - mostly the flowers. I like big flowers so the goal is to grow a sunflower or hollyhock taller than my house. 21 tomato varieties and most have multiple plants... I'm going to need a dehydrator or some new kitchen gadgets to learn to can. Or just give it all away.

Out of town this weekend so no more updates this week. Lights and heat mats will be on a timer for the two trays of plants and the seed starter tray. We're supposed to get rain but I'll leave a good 15 plants outside while I'm gone and see what happens because it'll be back to the high 70's and sunny before the weekend is over.

Lot #44 at the BigPumpkin Auctions is offering seeds from a 26.5 foot sunflower and a 20 footer along with a tall cross if you are interested. http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Attachments/ ... 2_2025.pdf

[leftylogan]

Lot #44 at the BigPumpkin Auctions is offering seeds from a 26.5 foot sunflower and a 20 footer along with a tall cross if you are interested. http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Attachments/ ... 2_2025.pdf

26.5 feet!?! I'm technically not supposed to have anything taller than my ~7 foot fence so I'm already pushing my luck with regular sunflowers (and even tomatoes probably). If I don't get yelled at by my complex this year I'll seriously consider some true giants for my next go around.

I think I'd have to make an individual raised bed for it too a container or grow bags would feel sketchy with the winds we can get. It would so be worth it though.

[JayneR13]

Bribe management with a fresh tomato or two. Sometimes it’s the cost of doing business.

[leftylogan]

Got a decent amount of work done this weekend while it was 80 and sunny out. Avoided a sunburn and got a tan so that's mission accomplished as well.

Planted out some peppers (1 ea Jalapeno, Fresno, Sweet Banana), tomatoes (Green Zebra x 2 + 1 ea Black Krim, Chocolate Cherry, Dwarf Dinky), cucumbers, zucchini, scallop squash, watermelon, and sunflowers. I paper towel sprouted a 2 each of 3 bush bean varieties and put them in the 3 front grow bags in front of the tomato.



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cont...

[leftylogan]

I have 4 full trays (18 x 4 = 72) that will be needing homes sometime in the next few weeks. Seed starter is down to half full and will not be getting more until I start a few things recommended for March (Pumpkins & Winter Squash mostly). Had a little bit of damping off or root rot in the tray on the right and had to pull a few things. I re-potted some of the ones that were struggling the most so we'll see how they come back.



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Another busy work week ahead so we'll see what I can get done this week. I work for the government dammit i'm not here to help (kidding).

[JayneR13]

I hope you're able to save some of those seedlings! It's been my experience with both damping off and root rot that saving the seedling is impossible. I've had to simply start over, after bleaching pots & trays of course.

[leftylogan]

I hope you're able to save some of those seedlings! It's been my experience with both damping off and root rot that saving the seedling is impossible. I've had to simply start over, after bleaching pots & trays of course.

I think the Tomatillos are going to make it and maybe one or two of the hollyhocks. Everything else is still looking rough today. I have extras of everything but the hollyhocks so all good there. I "accidentally" ordered 3 more varieties of hollyhocks in the pinetree seeds sale so I'll restart these black ones when those arrive.

[leftylogan]

My Luca girl out protecting my plants or trying to photosynthesize I haven't decided.

[JayneR13]

Could be wondering what Dad is up to! What a lovely girl. She looks young! Is she still a puppy?

Accidentally ordered seeds, did you? Welcome to Seedaholics Anonymous!

[leftylogan]

Could be wondering what Dad is up to! What a lovely girl. She looks young! Is she still a puppy?

Accidentally ordered seeds, did you? Welcome to Seedaholics Anonymous!

She's my bestie, I wish she was still young she just has a forever puppy face. She's 10 or 11 somehow and we've had her since she was 2 or 3. She came from a shelter up north while we were still in college and most likely came off of one of the native reservations in the area. She's had a nice cushy life protecting our couch ever since. She was the perfect apartment dog but I'm so glad we were able to get her a backyard for her last stretch.

I can't resist all the pretty flower colors...