Age of purchased seeds

[MissS]

I choose uncoated seed over the coated. The coat on the seed holds moisture from humidity which shortens the lifespan of the seed and often contains antifungals which I don't want. You usually pay more for coated seed and they have a shorter shelf-life. I will say that the coated seeds are much easier to sow.

[karstopography]

I didn’t know about the antifungals. I wondered what the coating was about.

I love getting a packet of lettuce seeds with hundreds of loose seeds in there. Seems like such a bargain even if the seeds aren’t long lived. I tend to over order and get too many varieties, but generally plant most of them before they get too old to sprout. Most of these lettuces can be sowed fairly heavily and the thinnings/baby leaves are good in salads. Probably the majority of lettuce I use doesn’t get to the head stage, but is used as baby/immature lettuce or clipped off leaves. At least a few get to the head stage.

BTW, I’ve recently gotten a few volunteer lettuce plants pop up where I let some lettuce flower last year. I guess some set seed and dispersed them before I removed the plants. I didn’t collect any of the lettuce seeds. I might try to this year.

[Seven Bends]

I had very poor germination from a packet of pelleted Ferry Morse Better Boy tomato seeds a few years ago. I hadn't intended to buy pelleted seeds; I just picked up the packet at Home Depot without realizing what they would be, because I'd never encountered pelleted tomato seeds before. They were little clay-covered balls, basically. I think only one of three seeds came up, and that seedling was weak and died. Might not have had anything to do with the pelleting, of course, and one anecdote is useless as data, but it did make me leery of pelleted seed.

[Seven Bends]

I choose uncoated seed over the coated. The coat on the seed holds moisture from humidity which shortens the lifespan of the seed and often contains antifungals which I don't want. You usually pay more for coated seed and they have a shorter shelf-life. I will say that the coated seeds are much easier to sow.

Looks like this explains my experience with the Ferry Morse coated tomato seeds, thanks!

[ddsack]

I don't normally buy pelletized seed for veggies since it costs a little more than unpelleted, and I don't mind thinning. But I grow wave petunias from seed, and that seed always comes pelletized for a good reason. It is so tiny that without the yellow coating you could not see it once it's in the starter soil, and it needs light to germinate. With the yellow coating, I can see to space a seed in each four corner of the cell, and just lay it in a shallow toothpick depression which I can keep sprayed with water. The coating dissolves quickly once it becomes wet. Generally you when pay for 10 seeds in a vial, sometimes they give you 11-12 seeds. Rarely does every one germinate, maybe 8 is common for me. Many flower seeds are really tiny so pelletizing is helpful.
On the downside, I've noticed that most unpelletized seed packs have really become miserly with the amount of seeds they give you compared to three or four years ago. I used to get enough seed from a lobelia or snapdragon envelope to last me three years, now I receive so few I worry about having enough germinate to plant out in a nice group!

[Homegrwoninillinois]

I am a licensed (in my state) small seed seller. I am required to print the year of sale on the package. When the year changes I must remove those items from sale.

I will use them in swaps, trades, etc. but I cannot legally sell them in my state. This is done to protect the consumer from purchasing old seed.

Each state has different requirements, and many seed sellers are not licensed. I hope this helps.

~ Sam

Do we have you on the vendor list?

You don’t, I didn’t want to promote myself among the group. If someone else wanted to that would be okay. I didn’t want anyone to think I was taking advantage

~Sam

[TX-TomatoBug]

Thanks for the good info on Delectation of Tomatoes. I was a little put out when I ordered a few packets from him last year and they were dated 2018. Glad to know that I don't have to feel "put out" anymore.

[BlackKrim]

I had very poor germination from a packet of pelleted Ferry Morse Better Boy tomato seeds a few years ago. I hadn't intended to buy pelleted seeds; I just picked up the packet at Home Depot without realizing what they would be, because I'd never encountered pelleted tomato seeds before. They were little clay-covered balls, basically. I think only one of three seeds came up, and that seedling was weak and died. Might not have had anything to do with the pelleting, of course, and one anecdote is useless as data, but it did make me leery of pelleted seed.

No need to pellet tom. seeds as far as I can see, because they are large enough to easily place into your growing medium without wasting any. But lettuce, onion and carrot seeds are just too small, at least for some of us. But I suspect, from your experience with the Ferry Morse Better Boy seeds, that pelleting is an excuse to charge more.

I am waiting for "them" (anybody) to put pellet material on Leptosiphon aka False Baby Stars, a hybrid. There is not a sweeter little flower anywhere. Johnny's sells pelleted snapdragon seeds, which is nice.

[bower]

@Bower. But I really had to wonder what's up with commercial lettuce seeds, that germinate fine in the year you buy them and then the following year are dead as a doornail. My saved lettuce seed keeps going for at least 4 years before showing signs of being too old.

No kidding. I too was shocked when my lettuce mix from Baker Creek did not seem to last. But read on: I have a book by Rob Johnston Jr on seed saving - "Growing Garden Seeds" (1983) - in which he says that lettuce seeds should be viable for 1-2 years with "no special storage conditions" and 3-4 years with consistently cool/dry conditions. There ya go, I guess. But strangely, I've kept other brands of lettuce (not Baker Creek) in a slightly cool place in the house and they just kept on going for years!! Who knows what is going on...

How are you storing your lettuce seeds that they kept going for at least 4 years? Any precious (rare-ish) seeds of any kind I keep in jars in the freezer. Thanks for replying.

My home seeds didn't get any special treatment, not refrigerated but as with all seeds I'll keep them in the basement in summer or else in a small cabinet I have that is in the middle of the house and never subjected to direct sunlight. Temperature can vary a lot though with some summer highs I never thought I'd see in recent years.
The commercial seeds are kept in the same place as whatever I saved, so in theory storage conditions shouldn't play a part, unless they were improperly stored when I bought them!
So I don't know what causes it, but the sudden drop in germination is no joke - from a solid 80% or more down to maybe 1% or none at all. Maybe they were treated with something, that makes them last only a year?

I've read some of the Canada seed regulations, and a special set of conditions needs to be met for anything to be labeled "Canada #1 seed" - germination rate, absence of weed seeds etc. Those would tend to be fresh as well, and sometimes you see a year date that isn't just "packed for".
It's a jungle out there...

[bower]

On the subject of pelleted seed, there are coatings now that are organically approved. I'm not a pellet fan but I did have a pack of root parsley seed (organic approved) that was pelleted, and you could see the point because of the small size.
OTOH when I let them overwinter and set seed, the seed I harvested was surprisingly bigger on average than what I was sold. Suspect they were scraping the barrel to harvest every seed no matter how mingy, perhaps?
Anyhoo happier now with my own seed. As usual!

[Uncle_Feist]

A few years ago, I germinated some 30 year old mater seed I personally harvested in 1989. They were fermented, air dried, and then dried to very low moisture in silica gel and stored air tight in the freezer for long term storage. I over seeded due to the seed age, but there was no need for that as I got probably better than a 90% germination. The germination was 4 or 5 days later than every other variety, but when they popped, they all popped.

I experienced this same delayed germination with some Pony Express F1 seeds from Harris a couple of years ago and it messed up my transplanting schedule because those seedlings were a week behind all other varieties. So, I called Harris to report it. Mind you, I have been a Harris customer for better than 35 years without a single complaint the whole time. The service rep I initially reached transferred me to some "tech" person who started grilling me with defensive questions and putting all of the blame for the slow germination squarely on my shoulders. Our conversation ended abruptly without a thankyou or a goodbye, but a few weeks later I did receive a replacement order. I haven't placed an order with them since.

[MissS]

I certainly do agree that very well dried seed keeps it's viability far longer than those that are just lightly dried. Drying the seeds well makes a world of difference. I do find that some varieties take longer to germinate than others. Also seed that wasn't super hard dried also takes longer to germinate if it germinates at all.

[BlackKrim]

OTOH when I let them overwinter and set seed, the seed I harvested was surprisingly bigger on average than what I was sold. Suspect they were scraping the barrel to harvest every seed no matter how mingy, perhaps?

@Bower. Possibly! Anyway, I grow parsley from seed, too, and really like the root kind. I'd like to find a pelleted kind but then you are supposed to soak the seed for a day or two so how would that work...

[Homegrwoninillinois]

I am a licensed (in my state) small seed seller. I am required to print the year of sale on the package. When the year changes I must remove those items from sale.

I will use them in swaps, trades, etc. but I cannot legally sell them in my state. This is done to protect the consumer from purchasing old seed.

Each state has different requirements, and many seed sellers are not licensed. I hope this helps.

~ Sam

Unless the State sends an inspector to your business to watch you harvest, clean and then package & label seeds, I don't see how the buyer is protected, I really don't. What am I missing? Serious question. Thanks.

It's like a woman having an unassisted home birth with only the father in attendance (I know of one such case, my friend's son & daughter in law) and then stating that the child was born on such and such a date. No govt official was there to see it and affirm they know the date of birth.

They could never pay to employ for such a thing. I guarantee it’s the same observation large companies receive. The only time there is inspections is if it’s perennial plants. Because of weed seed and plants that are considered bad in some places but not in others. (Usually the south).

Lots of people cut corners. It’s the person behind the operation that counts I would guess.


This information is just for my state. I also do not hold a reseller certificate because I do not resell seeds. I only produce my own.
~Sam

[bower]

OTOH when I let them overwinter and set seed, the seed I harvested was surprisingly bigger on average than what I was sold. Suspect they were scraping the barrel to harvest every seed no matter how mingy, perhaps?

@Bower. Possibly! Anyway, I grow parsley from seed, too, and really like the root kind. I'd like to find a pelleted kind but then you are supposed to soak the seed for a day or two so how would that work...

I didn't soak them, I sowed direct and paid little attention so I don't know how long it took, although germination was good enough - I just planted a few seeds together, to fill some gaps in the garlic bed. Came up in a bunch. I planted some this fall in the fallow beds, just to see if they overwinter. Rodents not interested in them, which is a plus. Big plus.
The pelleted seed came from William Dam, the variety "Nordic Hilmar" - quite a mild tasting root, good carroty shape.
I've never had bad seed from William Dam. Best deals are on larger amounts, but they do sell packets for gardeners. It's a wait to get your order shipped but worth it if you want good fresh seed or larger amounts. Still... like my own better.
I can send you some if you want to try it unpelleted.

[BlackKrim]

The pelleted seed came from William Dam, the variety "Nordic Hilmar" - quite a mild tasting root, good carroty shape.
I've never had bad seed from William Dam. Best deals are on larger amounts, but they do sell packets for gardeners. It's a wait to get your order shipped but worth it if you want good fresh seed or larger amounts. Still... like my own better.
I can send you some if you want to try it unpelleted.

Why, thank you for your kind offer. I have purchased seed from William Dam several times and yes they are good. However, I still have some non pelleted which I will attempt to grow again, don't know the variety but probably the common standard one they call Hamburg. In the meantime, I am keeping an eye out for pelleted no matter the variety. Nordic Hilmar sounds absolutely perfect.

Seedway sells Arat in pelleted form but you have to buy a minimum of 10,000 seeds. Right. SMH.
Many thanks.

[MissS]

@BlackKrim Osborne Seed carries many pelleted seeds.

[BlackKrim]

@MissS. Many thanks for that info!