What is the best yielding tomato with short stature

[bower]

@CtGrower I do actually have some yield data from last season, which I will dig up and have a look at. I started late, really late for me, so the season was extra short. And I didn't get the fall crop from most of my plants that I would usually get, after they deal with the main crop and start producing again. But 163 days is more than we get of tomato tolerable conditions. Say I might plant May1 into containers in greenhouse, start harvesting early July and pinch the tops end of August to ripen by end of September, I'm bringing in the fall crop at 150 days. At 120 days it was too short.
But as @Tormahto pointed out, conditions are everything. You probably have a lot more optimal days than we do. Your conditions may also be more like Tormahto's, and may get fewer sets and bigger fruit on EM Champion.

WRT yield maximum, I'm noticing that container size sets a limit on production. I can get more fruit weight just by moving up from 5 gallons to 7. So think about planting density and how good is the soil where you're planting. Pile on the good dirt.
At my friend's farm, I did florida weave one year - excellent soil in that greenhouse: plants were 18-24 inches apart in rows.
She normally grows single stem at about 18 inch spacing - I had some rows of indeterminates as well as vigorous determinates.
Rows are pretty tight so you have to prune off or push back the branches of determinates and then run a tight weave to keep the path clear. I let the indeterminates grow 3 stems each as well. Obviously more productive than the single. All of the plants were huge and very productive - determinates were less work and didn't get too tall for the supports.

[CtGrower]

https://txmg.org/hendersonmg/plant-libr ... s%20superb!

More on Roadster. 65 dtm is an attractive number. Celebrity + is going to end up to be a bigger plant and more days to maturity. Celebrity plus is sort of in that large determinant, semi-determinate class. . Roadster checks the OP’s < 10 ounce slicer.

Black Sea Man is a dark 75 dtm 8 ounce determinate.

Bobcat is even more of a small bush type that makes 10 ounce fruit and is 68 dtm. https://tomatogrowers.com/products/bobcat-hybrid-tomato

Thanks for the recommendations. I was wondering about how big Celebrity+ would get being semi-determinate. The Black Sea Man might be too strange of a color for pantry clients.

[CtGrower]

Having taken part in the development of a number of dwarfs now on the market, most were now especially productive and many were not especially short in stature. True, a lot of my efforts were early in the process so that the dwarfism had not yet manifested itself. Of all the tomato varieties I have grown there is one that does stick in my mind as shorter in stature than most. For me Cherokee Purple has been about the same height as most dwarfs and bush style plants. With CP you get a smaller plant with a fair amount of production and a seriously excellent flavor. Ninety-nine percent of my plants are in the tall to very tall category and that is on purpose.

Thanks Paul! Cherokee Purple is one of my favorite tomatoes! Unfortunately, it is too tall for the location I have. I was hoping that a dwarf like the Rosella Purple or something like it might be shorter of stature and still yield a good number of tomatoes even if it will not yield as many as a regular indeterminate. For our purposes, we want more quantities of smaller tomatoes vs few larger tomatoes in order to provide for more clients.

I'm a newbie to the topic of development of open pollinated dwarfs. Very fascinating! Thanks for working to introduce this new class of tomato!

[CtGrower]

There is quite a lot of variation in height of determinate plants, but that also varies with conditions. At least we can say, they don't require pruning (much or at all) and can be supported with Florida weave to make a productive hedge.
Other food pantry growers have mentioned that red tomatoes are in highest demand, so I would recommend EM Champion as a very productive determinate with red, heart shaped fruit of varying sizes. It produced a lot for me even growing in a 5 gallon pot, and the fruit are nice and sweet. Also quite early.

In my garden, EM Champion, has very low production, of sometimes huge hearts (up to 24 ounces), with great flavor.

I've never trialed a short stature plant, with high yielding, good tasting, medium to large tomatoes. Siletz has had the best production, of awful tasting bags of gel.

High yield is relative to the space I have. Either I grow some kind of tomato in the space I have vs no tomato. I also don't want 24oz tomatoes or true spitters!

[CtGrower]

“Roadster” high yielding, compact determinate, 8-12 ounces, red.

I have not heard of Roadster. What color is it and how tall does it get? Is it hybrid or OP? Thanks

https://txmg.org/hendersonmg/plant-libr ... -roadster/#

Roadster is a popular red hybrid here, Roadster plants end up smaller than Celebrity.

https://www.totallytomato.com/product/T00636/127

Adapted for container growing.

The tomatoes will look very much like what most of the general population thinks a tomato should look like. I volunteered at a pantry in Massachusetts once upon a time and heirloom tomatoes, with their maybe larger blossom scars and other “imperfections” were often rejected in favor of “perfect” red globes. Roadster has a better shot at being “attractive” to many vs. something heirloom that might look “weird” to a good number of the patrons of a food pantry. Just a thought and not throwing shade at anyone, just an experience I had with this type of stuff. My son worked at another food pantry and would reinforce this view.

I know what you mean about the challenge of giving away anything with a split or blossom scar! But...there are clients you can approach and say, hey.. I know this looks ugly, but you know you just cut around it and it will be great and they happily take them. With that said, it will be easier to grow more of the "perfect" red globes. (sigh)

[CtGrower]

I grew Hanky Red this past season. It was a production machine of 6-8 oz red fruits. The yields were off the chart and the plant grew to 3.5 ft tall. Another shorter productive one was McClintlock's Big Pink. Neither the plants or the fruits are big. The plants were about 4 ft tall and the fruit about 8 oz. The seeds for these are hard to come by. If you would like some for a SASE then PM me and they are yours. For everyone else they will be in the MMMM this year.

@CtGrower The MMMM is the Mostly Mystery Mater Mailing which is a huge swap sponsored by Tormato. It's well under way for this year. Save up seed and jump right in next year.
viewforum.php?f=117

Those both sound promising for the space we have! 6-8oz fruit and short in stature. I'd love to try them as well as saving seeds! I will PM you.

Thanks for explaining the MMMM. Sounds like fun!

[Tormahto]

I'm likely no more than about 75 miles from you.

Years ago, I read a tomato trial published by the CT Agricultural Extension. Their top producing tomato, grown at multiple locations in CT, was Kellogg's Breakfast. In my own trials, Kellogg's Breakfast has had the highest production (in poundage), 40+ pounds is possible, on about 40+ tomatoes. A year of not ideal weather might be only about half of that.

It is a large indeterminate plant. So, if you have space for just one large plant, and the rest small, I recommend KB. It is an orange tomato, sometimes a bit ugly, and I don't know if that matters to your customers. If you can do the one large plant, and want a smaller tomato, I recommend Supersonic F1, a red of about 7-8 ounces, generally blemish free, which can produce about 80 tomatoes. Supersonic is always the good tasting, normal looking tomato that I recommend for those seeking production above all.

It's a noble effort that your group is undertaking. If it was me, I'd be contacting the closest agricultural extension for input, explaining your situation.

And, I would look for some currently unused land nearby, hopefully with a water source, that the landowner would allow your group to use.

[CtGrower]

I'm likely no more than about 75 miles from you.

Years ago, I read a tomato trial published by the CT Agricultural Extension. Their top producing tomato, grown at multiple locations in CT, was Kellogg's Breakfast. In my own trials, Kellogg's Breakfast has had the highest production (in poundage), 40+ pounds is possible, on about 40+ tomatoes. A year of not ideal weather might be only about half of that.

It is a large indeterminate plant. So, if you have space for just one large plant, and the rest small, I recommend KB. It is an orange tomato, sometimes a bit ugly, and I don't know if that matters to your customers. If you can do the one large plant, and want a smaller tomato, I recommend Supersonic F1, a red of about 7-8 ounces, generally blemish free, which can produce about 80 tomatoes. Supersonic is always the good tasting, normal looking tomato that I recommend for those seeking production above all.

It's a noble effort that your group is undertaking. If it was me, I'd be contacting the closest agricultural extension for input, explaining your situation.

And, I would look for some currently unused land nearby, hopefully with a water source, that the landowner would allow your group to use.

I appreciate the reference to CAES study. I had no idea about it. Looks like a lot of good info in the study. Good thought to reach out to CAES.

As far as Kelloggs Breakfast, I would be open to trying in my personal garden and providing any excess to the Pantry. Most pantry clients are reluctant to take ugly fruit, but there are a few that appreciate the awesome ugliness! (I do personally!)

We do have a 10 ft long string trellis in the back of the pantry that is used for indeterminates (cherry/slicers). Last year we had a couple of Pineapple's that broke the string since they were so large, so this in addition to limited sharing of large fruit, we decided to intentionally grow smaller 7-10oz red globelike fruit. (production above all). It sounds like Supersonic might be a good choice for this. Another grower suggested something like Jettsetter as well.. (8oz, 64dtm). I will throw in a couple of heirlooms (Cherokee Purple) to mix it up a bit as well.

As far as looking for more unused land.. the pantry garden was just started from nothing 3 years ago and we have a lot of work to improve yield where we are at this time. Good thought for the future though...with more hands!! . My last foray into growing in an unused community garden ended with all of my squash turned into bread bowls by some local varmint! (therefore the hesitancy)

Thanks for your recommendations!

P.S. I'm in Hebron

Diane

[Gardadore]

Dwarf Rosella Crimson has been a very productive plant for me with a nice med-large red tomato. I grow it in a container and it produces nicely throughout the summer in NE Pa. Still won’t beat out a larger indeterminate in production but good for the size you are looking for. I have also grown Rosella Purple which is nice but not quite as productive.

[Dee]

My favourites that are short and productive are EM-Champion (red hearts, great for sauces or fresh eating), Black Sea Man (a mahogany beefsteak, productive, delicious), Principe Borghese (red cherry, good for drying, fine/okay fresh, stores quite well), and Linda (a red cherry, tasty, juicier than Principe Borghese). I have grown Black Sea Man and Principe Borghese more often than any other varieties.

Last year, I grew Dwarf Speckled Heart. The plants were short (around 2 - 2.5 feet) and very productive. I found they did not like our hot summer and the skins were tough. They were so productive and pretty, though, that I will try them again in a different location and cross my fingers for more moderate weather this year.

Dwarf Roza Vetrov is very productive and is early for me. The tomatoes are pink and become a bit soft if left too long to ripen on the plant. Nice flavour, and I like having a few varieties on the early side.

[karstopography]

I’ll second @Dee evaluation of Principe Borghese and can’t really add to it.

Anyway, Principe Borghese looks like a tomato enough, I would guess anyway, to not be rejected solely on looking “weird” like so many of these fancy heirloom and psychedelic modern crosses can sometimes look to folks not into tomatoes like people here on TJ are.

I think long storage ability would be something to maybe elevate in priority if the tomatoes are meant for a food pantry. Reason being food pantry patrons might only get by or stock up on once every week or even every other week (this was the general pattern at the pantry my son worked at). What good really is a tomato that has a shelf life of a couple of days and isn’t even up to normal handling like some of these heirloom tomatoes are like? For example, Cherokee purple and black Krim have very short shelf lives, especially if picked ripe.

Yes, we know how good these heirlooms are and how long they might last out on the counter and how to handle them, but food pantry patrons are generally just trying to ensure there’s food on the table. What good is a tomato that won’t last and will rot on the counter or spoil in a fraction of the time until their next visit? A generic red hybrid or durable heirloom like Principe Borghese tomato that looks more or less like a store bought version but is grown on site is still going to be better to way better than the store bought tomato and in my experience many hybrid tomatoes grown at home store reasonably well if picked at not the last second of peak ripening.

[CtGrower]

Dwarf Rosella Crimson has been a very productive plant for me with a nice med-large red tomato. I grow it in a container and it produces nicely throughout the summer in NE Pa. Still won’t beat out a larger indeterminate in production but good for the size you are looking for. I have also grown Rosella Purple which is nice but not quite as productive.

Thanks. Good to know as I was considering trying Rosella Purple. Maybe I'll try crimson instead.

[Gardadore]

I never thought of Black Seaman but have grown that as well with good luck. Also didn’t consider shelf life for the Rosellas or in general but a good point! Didn’t pay attention so hope they prove to be good possibilities.

[CtGrower]

My favourites that are short and productive are EM-Champion (red hearts, great for sauces or fresh eating), Black Sea Man (a mahogany beefsteak, productive, delicious), Principe Borghese (red cherry, good for drying, fine/okay fresh, stores quite well), and Linda (a red cherry, tasty, juicier than Principe Borghese). I have grown Black Sea Man and Principe Borghese more often than any other varieties.

Last year, I grew Dwarf Speckled Heart. The plants were short (around 2 - 2.5 feet) and very productive. I found they did not like our hot summer and the skins were tough. They were so productive and pretty, though, that I will try them again in a different location and cross my fingers for more moderate weather this year.

Dwarf Roza Vetrov is very productive and is early for me. The tomatoes are pink and become a bit soft if left too long to ripen on the plant. Nice flavour, and I like having a few varieties on the early side.

All of this tomato talk has me hungry! This is second callout for EM-Champion, and Black Sea Man. You had me with mahogany beefsteak. This might be too big for the pantry, but surely sound good!

Principe Borghese sounds good for pantry being a bit tougher for storage. I'm looking for a new red Indeterminate cherry since we grew Matts wild cherry last year and they were so small. We also grow SunGold in the back so the combo of SunGold/Principe Borghese offering might not be bad. Do you prune the Principe Borghese? It's listed as a determinate, but I have seen comments that people prune to 2 leaders and it can get to 6ft tall. I was planning on growing cherries on cattle panel this year with limited pruning. Would this work with Principe Borghese?

I like the idea of Dwarf Speckled Heart height and production. It's worth a try, however I think some clients would be put off by the striping. I don't see much availability for Dwarf Rosa Vetrov or Linda.

Thanks for the ideas! So many tomato's. too little space!!

[PlainJane]

Give Maglia Rosa a try for a Cherry.

About 3 ft, productive, great flavor, resists splitting and long hang time. And it’s really beautiful.

IMG_0435.jpeg

It’s the elongated cherry at about 7 & 8 o’clock. One clump is riper than the other.
I always pick at first blush and ripen indoors.

[CtGrower]

@CtGrower I do actually have some yield data from last season, which I will dig up and have a look at. I started late, really late for me, so the season was extra short. And I didn't get the fall crop from most of my plants that I would usually get, after they deal with the main crop and start producing again. But 163 days is more than we get of tomato tolerable conditions. Say I might plant May1 into containers in greenhouse, start harvesting early July and pinch the tops end of August to ripen by end of September, I'm bringing in the fall crop at 150 days. At 120 days it was too short.
But as @Tormahto pointed out, conditions are everything. You probably have a lot more optimal days than we do. Your conditions may also be more like Tormahto's, and may get fewer sets and bigger fruit on EM Champion.

WRT yield maximum, I'm noticing that container size sets a limit on production. I can get more fruit weight just by moving up from 5 gallons to 7. So think about planting density and how good is the soil where you're planting. Pile on the good dirt.
At my friend's farm, I did florida weave one year - excellent soil in that greenhouse: plants were 18-24 inches apart in rows.
She normally grows single stem at about 18 inch spacing - I had some rows of indeterminates as well as vigorous determinates.
Rows are pretty tight so you have to prune off or push back the branches of determinates and then run a tight weave to keep the path clear. I let the indeterminates grow 3 stems each as well. Obviously more productive than the single. All of the plants were huge and very productive - determinates were less work and didn't get too tall for the supports.

Good tips about container size/spacing/soil. I have been growing single stem at 12" spacing for Indeterminates in a different area and was planning on increasing spacing to 2ft with 3-4 stems this year. As far as determinates, I'm interested in trying them to reduce the work! Glad to hear the weave worked. Interested in trying the EM Champion somewhere (maybe at my house) to see the growth habit here in Ct. (My soil isn't that great, but I'm working on it) I'd be interested in hearing what your yield info showed. thanks!

[CtGrower]

Give Maglia Rosa a try for a Cherry.

About 3 ft, productive, great flavor, resists splitting and long hang time. And it’s really beautiful.
IMG_0435.jpeg

It’s the elongated cherry at about 7 & 8 o’clock. One clump is riper than the other.
I always pick at first blush and ripen indoors.

Sounds interesting! I also pick sungold early (especially before rain) due to its tendency to split. Thanks!

[Greatgardens]

Stellar F1, if you can find it. It is a 4ft plant that is disease resistant and a tremendous producer. For me, it produced most of its tomatoes in a concentrated period. Taste? OK, but not great. Galahad F1 is another good yielder, and a smaller plant. Really good tasting! I grew both of these varieties in a grow bag. Stellar had so many tomatoes that I was watering it 2x daily. Florida weave? Thought that was mainly for intdeterminates? Never tried it. I use large cages.

[rossomendblot]

I have only grown EM Champion once, and 2 plants gave me 15kg. It's definitely the highest yielding determinate I've grown. It was a very good year for tomato growing outdoors, though. I don't grow many large fruited determinates anymore, mostly because it's hard to find anything other than blight resistant determinate cherries in this country. However, I found some EM Champion seed I saved in 2021 so perhaps I will grow it again this year.

[CtGrower]

Stellar F1, if you can find it. It is a 4ft plant that is disease resistant and a tremendous producer. For me, it produced most of its tomatoes in a concentrated period. Taste? OK, but not great. Galahad F1 is another good yielder, and a smaller plant. Really good tasting! I grew both of these varieties in a grow bag. Stellar had so many tomatoes that I was watering it 2x daily. Florida weave? Thought that was mainly for intdeterminates? Never tried it. I use large cages.

Good to know... what kind of cages do you find are most useful?

What kind of cages are useful and... not bad to look at? The area we are intending to grow shorter tomatoes is in the front of a food pantry and needs to look neat.