Should saved tomato seeds be combined

[Ken4230]

I am fairly new here and think that there may be a difference of opinion about combining several different tomatoes when saving seeds. I am trying to stabilize Big Beef for my wife (she will only eat round red picture perfect tomatoes while I like the old heirlooms, large core and all). I have F5 seeds from a single Big Beef fermenting now with 4 more ready to go later this week, if they pass the taste test. I've had really good luck so far, tasted hundreds, both large and small. The taste has improved, the size seems to be slightly larger. The color seems to have faded slightly and seems to take longer to ripen. Dr. Male always said that taste and color was subjective.

I have always combined several tomatoes when saving seeds, or actually any seeds that I save. I have a fair amount of experience trying to improve the size and taste of mainly peppers with some tomato experience thrown in. I am planning on going to F10 if I live that long. I would appreciate any comments/suggestions that anyone has. This site is so much better than Tomatoville and I am really glad that I stumbled on it.

[Frosti]

I usually combine seeds from different fruits if I want to decrease my chances of saving crossed seeds by accident. When I deliberately cross plants thought, I use one zip lock bag per crossed flower.

[Whwoz]

@Ken4230 , you do not say if the fruit are from one plant or a number. If one plant would combine, if multiple plants, bag separately.

[Tormahto]

I'll save seeds separately from individual tomatoes for certain exceptional varieties,

grow plants the following year from each,

if no difference, THEN combine the seeds.

For most varieties it's combining seeds saved from multiple tomatoes. Running a seed swap, I'd like to have 500+ seeds for 100 packs of 5+ seeds each.
A typical large beefsteak will "average" about 125 seeds each, so I'll need about 4 tomatoes. But there is no such thing as average. I've had large beefsteaks with from 1 to 400+ seeds in them. So, it's cutting that 1st one open, and working from there.

[MissS]

I normally mix seeds from fruits from the same plant if it is a stable OP variety. This way if one was crossed there should be other seeds in the pack that are true.

If it is an unstable cross or something special, then I would save seeds from each individual tomato.

[Ken4230]

I'll save seeds separately from individual tomatoes for certain exceptional varieties,

grow plants the following year from each,

if no difference, THEN combine the seeds.

For most varieties it's combining seeds saved from multiple tomatoes. Running a seed swap, I'd like to have 500+ seeds for 100 packs of 5+ seeds each.
A typical large beefsteak will "average" about 125 seeds each, so I'll need about 4 tomatoes. But there is no such thing as average. I've had large beefsteaks with from 1 to 400+ seeds in them. So, it's cutting that 1st one open, and working from there.

I have done exactly what you said with the earlier generations. This is why I had to taste so many vine ripened tomatoes. I did no bagging, what I did do was separate each plant as far as I could. Now I think that I have done the best I can taste wise. The taste has improved quite a lot, although it can't compete with a Brandywine or a good smoky dark tomato . I think I am satisfied with the results although Brenda will probably never notice the improved taste.

I do appreciate your responses, you have answered my questions and relieved my doubts. I knew that there were enough knowledgeable people here to help me.

[Shule]

There are a few advantages and disadvantages to each method:

If you save seeds from each fruit separately, then if one fruit got cross-pollinated, the other might still be true. For this reason, I generally like to save seeds from at least three fruits per plant. However, that's a lot of work, and the downside is, if you only grow seeds from one fruit one year, then if they're crossed, you're likely to get mostly crossed seed (or else one cross and a bunch of non-crosses). So, if you're okay with being patient and trying again with another fruit the next year, it's a decent way to go, especially as you can more easily select for the largest and best-quality fruits this way.

On the other hand, combining a bunch of fruits together is nice, especially if you're going to be growing lots of plants, since you'll get a wider variety of plants. And probably most of them won't be crossed, even if some are. However, the biggest advantage is probably that it's super easy by comparison. There's a lot less responsibility to worry about. If it weren't for the easiness factor, I'd recommend the other route, since you could always combine the individual bags if you wanted a mix later.

If you're doing experiments or selectively breeding, I'd suggest the first route. If you're just generally growing tomatoes and want decent results, the second route is a good one, especially if you don't want to get burned out.

[Shule]

Oh, also saving from individual fruits is great when you find an F1 cross you want to repeat or share with others. There's still a chance a given seed will be true-to-type, however, since each seed corresponds to a grain of pollen.

[Ken4230]

There are a few advantages and disadvantages to each method:

If you save seeds from each fruit separately, then if one fruit got cross-pollinated, the other might still be true. For this reason, I generally like to save seeds from at least three fruits per plant. However, that's a lot of work, and the downside is, if you only grow seeds from one fruit one year, then if they're crossed, you're likely to get mostly crossed seed (or else one cross and a bunch of non-crosses). So, if you're okay with being patient and trying again with another fruit the next year, it's a decent way to go, especially as you can more easily select for the largest and best-quality fruits this way.

On the other hand, combining a bunch of fruits together is nice, especially if you're going to be growing lots of plants, since you'll get a wider variety of plants. And probably most of them won't be crossed, even if some are. However, the biggest advantage is probably that it's super easy by comparison. There's a lot less responsibility to worry about. If it weren't for the easiness factor, I'd recommend the other route, since you could always combine the individual bags if you wanted a mix later.

If you're doing experiments or selectively breeding, I'd suggest the first route. If you're just generally growing tomatoes and want decent results, the second route is a good one, especially if you don't want to get burned out.

For normal seed saving, I use your first method with at least 4 or 5 of the best early tomatoes usually off a single plant. I try to select for the largest and best looking tomatoes I can possibly get. With trying to stabilize Big Beef for improved taste and maintaining its size and shape, I did some research and came to the conclusion that I could no longer group seeds together as I had been doing. The way I did it was a lot more work, but well worth it.

I don't think I will ever get burned out, there is nothing better than playing in the dirt and 3 months later pulling a ripe tomato right off the vine. I have been doing this for more than 70 years and I don't think I have been really discouraged about my garden. I do appreciate everyone's input, you have eased my mind.

[Tormahto]

There are a few advantages and disadvantages to each method:

If you save seeds from each fruit separately, then if one fruit got cross-pollinated, the other might still be true. For this reason, I generally like to save seeds from at least three fruits per plant. However, that's a lot of work, and the downside is, if you only grow seeds from one fruit one year, then if they're crossed, you're likely to get mostly crossed seed (or else one cross and a bunch of non-crosses). So, if you're okay with being patient and trying again with another fruit the next year, it's a decent way to go, especially as you can more easily select for the largest and best-quality fruits this way.

On the other hand, combining a bunch of fruits together is nice, especially if you're going to be growing lots of plants, since you'll get a wider variety of plants. And probably most of them won't be crossed, even if some are. However, the biggest advantage is probably that it's super easy by comparison. There's a lot less responsibility to worry about. If it weren't for the easiness factor, I'd recommend the other route, since you could always combine the individual bags if you wanted a mix later.

If you're doing experiments or selectively breeding, I'd suggest the first route. If you're just generally growing tomatoes and want decent results, the second route is a good one, especially if you don't want to get burned out.

For normal seed saving, I use your first method with at least 4 or 5 of the best early tomatoes usually off a single plant. I try to select for the largest and best looking tomatoes I can possibly get. With trying to stabilize Big Beef for improved taste and maintaining its size and shape, I did some research and came to the conclusion that I could no longer group seeds together as I had been doing. The way I did it was a lot more work, but well worth it.

I don't think I will ever get burned out, there is nothing better than playing in the dirt and 3 months later pulling a ripe tomato right off the vine. I have been doing this for more than 70 years and I don't think I have been really discouraged about my garden. I do appreciate everyone's input, you have eased my mind.

Doing it for 70 years and not being discouraged is quite an achievement. A typical year for me generally means that some things will do well and other things will not do well. 2023 was my worst year ever, as it was just constant rain and wind almost every other day. I likely averaged one tomato per plant, not counting SunGold. Zero summer squash/zucchini, which others reporting the same in my area.

So far, 2024 is looking very good, other than my latest ever direct sowing and transplanting.

[Ken4230]

Doing it for 70 years and not being discouraged is quite an achievement. A typical year for me generally means that some things will do well and other things will not do well. 2023 was my worst year ever, as it was just constant rain and wind almost every other day. I likely averaged one tomato per plant, not counting SunGold. Zero summer squash/zucchini, which others reporting the same in my area.

So far, 2024 is looking very good, other than my latest ever direct sowing and transplanting.

I am a very positive person, the nurse at the doctor's office no longer ask me if I am depressed. She just laughs and says : I know your just a happy person. This life is too short to be worried all the time. I am heavily involved at my church and I think that makes a big difference in my outlook on life.

My grandparents had a huge garden, I can remember hoeing those long rows before I was old enough to go to school. Probably 5 acres was potatoes which they sold for seed potatoes. I think I inherited my Green Thumb from them and my mom. Mom one year put up 280+ quarts of tomatoes from her small backyard garden. I had built it for intensive gardening and it worked really well.

Last year was one of my better tomato growing years, this year with all of the rain I am having more leaf issues than normal. Still producing lots of tomatoes. I am a heavy pruner of the bottom leaves and any other that looks bad. Most years my plants have no leaves for the first 3'. The neighbors and the librarians have been pretty tickled, both this year and last year.

[ddsack]

I don't combine most of my seed batches at all. I generally save seeds from four or five individual tomatoes per plant, some I've eaten and scrape what few seeds end up on the cutting board into a small glass and use oxiclean before rinsing and drying in flat coffee filters. So I generally end up with small batches ranging from early to late season produce that I have actually taste tested. All end up in small ziplocks, labeled with the date they were saved and coded A B C D etc for ease of record keeping. All then go into a larger Variety letter envelope that lists the batches contained and any comments on them. I have trouble with blossom drop when bagging, so rarely bag. Rather than risk not knowing what total percentage in a previous year batches may be crossed, I track which single tomato save date is planted, and then if it turns out incorrect, I can choose a different batch date next time, rather than throwing out the whole season seeds as wrong.

If I don't have small batch seeds saved from all varieties when the season is close to ending, I may then ferment bigger batches combining several fruit from the varieties I want to save.